Literally the entire Covenant system is designed for casual players and hurts “elitist” raiders.
You’re clueless.
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have u guys even planed what legendery will be the frist legendery u will get ? 
I was not saying that they should make +15 drop gear that is equal to Mythic raiding. But they should make dungeon loot scale up to +25 for example, or whatever key is comparable to a Mythic raid.
This is not pre-Legion.
In 3 hours you do 12 bosses, which is equal to 12 M+ runs. No one does 12 M+ runs in 3 hours, so you are right, they are not comparable as M+ takes more time.
This is not Legion, either.
They do. The end of week box award 226 loot for M+, and mythic raiding awards 226 drops. Both are timegated rewards which is only fair. Most people will be reliably 3 choicing their M+ box to max earlier than people will be reliably farming mythic raids.
There is aboslutely no way the end of dungeon drops in M+ should compete with Mythic raiding loot as they are spammable.
Regaridng the last two bosses in mythic raids…they are generally much harder than anything else so this is justified due to the amount of coordination and planning they require.
regarding scaling M+ up higher (to say 25)…it’s not possible to emulate the difficulty in raids in M+ because the content assumes less people so you’re limited in what you can do. You’ll never be able to make the content require as much coordination because 5 people is always less than a raid.
I mean you could add “special mechanics” that bosses get on 25+ keys only, but in conjunction with the scaling nature of m+ will that not make things unnecessarily complex and possibly OP to balance?
If such a thing was done, they’d need to put on lockout on it to avoid abuse. So you can only “roll” for the 226 loot that drops from end of dungeon chest in a 25 key once per week per dungeon.
I still don’t think they can be compared. Sure they’re both pve but they’re very different types of content and I don’t think comparing their difficulty is possible because it comes from very different things. M+ difficulty is very much are individual players on the ball regaridng their positioning, interrupts etc and mechanics tend to look at stuff like this. Raids are very much about awareness of what is going on regarding the whole raid, and syncronising a lot of people to act in unison which is much harder than having 3 dps cooperate.
M+ over 20 is infinitely harder than Mythic raids. The main challenge of Mythic raids is getting enough people online that will bang their heads until the boss is dead in 1k tries. In M+ you got no room for error.
Also, lets talk about PVP, do you honestly think Gladiator gear is easier to get versus spamming your rotation in a raid? Give me a break.
Also I like how elitist live in their little bubble, listening to “pro” podcast and thinking covenants will actually matter after the “elitist” moaned from the start and nerfed them to the ground. You are the one clueless, you are a very small minority.
why should they? M+ participation rate is so low at that level, basically the only people who would be doing it would be the same raiding elites you complain about
It should be
Firstly, it takes a LONG time into a tier for mythic to be cleared in 3 hours. The vast majority of guilds have to do it in multiple days. Secondly, there are so many factors you are not taking into account. The more players required to do the content, the harder it is to participate in that content because organising more people is more difficult. Additionally, the amount of loot dropped by bosses for raiding are being reduced in shadowlands so you are splitting a limited amount of loot across 20 people (in mythic). Finally, M+ being spammable means you are less reliant on RNG as you can roll the dice as many times as you like whereas as with raiding you have 1 shot on 1 specific boss each week.
wrong
If you continue to make the same mistakes in those 1k tries you will get absolutely nowhere. Mythic raiding absolutely requires you to think and play very well for a very long period of time without fail.
Just like a wipe, you can fail your key and try again, get your key levelled again and then try again.
no it isn’t and there should be gear you can buy straight from a vendor that is locked for 2400+ rated players that rewards equally to Mythic raiding. However, these pieces need to be expensive (in conquest) to ensure that people can’t afford all the pieces as soon as they reach 2400. Perhaps an additional requirement of 50 wins at 2400 to buy the pieces could work.
Vast generalisations are merely meaningless rhetoric to score debating points with people who you are pandering to. It’s like when politicians say ‘‘we need to stop the rich!’’…
Where am I complaining about raiding elites? Mythic raiding participation is also very low, what’s your point? Only 31% of people have killed HC N’Zoth, and half of them are probably boosted.
Time waiting to form a group should not be considered as an added difficulty, that would be ridicolous. I was taking “3 hours” because that’s how long the raider above said it takes.
The amount of loot dropped per dungeon is much less than that of a raid boss.
How is it spammable if you get only 1 item per week from M+ which is comparable to a Mythic raid, not including the last 2 bosses. The +15 gear drop is less than HC.
M+ does not offer inferior gear to raiding.
You will be higher geared in ~2 months than you would be in BFA by only playing Mythic+.
This is due to the fact that you’re essentially removing a big part of the weekly chest RNG by adding the weekly vault.
You can have up to 3 choices of mythic ilvl gear in the vault, all from different slots if you do 7 M15+, so it’s extremely likely you will get an upgrade each week since you can choose from 3, whilst in the past you would get 1 item, purely RNG, if you got 3 belts in 3 weeks, well tough luck.
50 wins above 2400 rating is gladiator.
You get 8 chances per week to get 226 gear and 2 chances per week to get 233 gear. You get 1 item per week that is 226 from M+. I don’t know in which world you call that fair.
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I am saying that you lobbying for higher item level from 25+ keys is an arbitrary request because it would go to the same exact people who already gear from mythic raids.
You are thinking of pugs, I’m talking about in a guild, perhaps something you’ve not experienced. I don’t mean waiting for people to invite, I mean getting them to come back every week, keeping them all satisfied and once you’re in the raid, co-ordinating them all and making sure every1 does what they need to do on every boss in order for them to actually die.
For the vast majority of a tier, mythic raids cannot be completed in 3 hours. Stop with this false narrative.
I am going to say you are wrong however without either of us providing spreadsheet data on this, it is a pointless argument.
I’m arguing against the item level being higher. I am pro it being lower than mythic… duh…
I am saying it should not be higher than it is rn in beta / equal to raids because it’s spammable… Did you forget the argument topic man!!!
For the mount and title I’m aware. But I wasn’t thinking that the gear rating locks had to be tied to the titles necessarily.
You’re the problem with this game.
You don’t want skill to be what allows you to wipe people in PvP - you want PvE gear to be.
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What’s the point of it being spammable if it is worse than HC raid gear? No one is going to spam something if it is not worth it. 210 ilvl gear is just not worth spamming anything. People will just now just do their weekly +15 and that’s it. 1 run per week.
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Was this post made by Grovi
I don’t understand why it bothers you so much that someone can play a different form of competitive content that still awards good gear. I do not enjoy raiding and I should not be forced to raid if I want to play M+ and PvP.
There is no skill in WoW pvp. Not to the level required to even play Fortnite. The “skill” in WoW is the overall meta mastery of the game. Yes, gear should give huge advantage in pvp. This is what the game is about. Don’t like it? Play LoL. Play Smite. The skill required in WoW is knowing how to build your character, how to get your stats right, and then you just kill everyone. You not realizing this is probably why you have resentment towards the game. You want it to be something that it never set out to be.
People will be chesting 226 within a few weeks. People will not be clearing 10 mythic bosses by the third week.
You need to look at it over the span of a tier, not an isolated week. M+ will offer better gearing start of tier, and then towards end raiding will be better to fill out the slots (although you’ll be 3 chesting by this point which reduces the chance of the weekly loot being a dud).
So it’s only when a guild is reliably farming most wings of a raid on mythic that it will cause those players to get ahead, assuming that player only raids and another only does M+…until then the M+ player will probably be ahead slightly at most points.
Most players do not farm Mythic raiding…so your issue is a teeny fraction of the playerbase will have better gear at the end of a tier, because they attempt this content rather than sticking to +15 difficulty on repeat (which in nowhere near as hard as mythic raiding)
I don’t see the issue.