Because from what i have seen so far and beta being a thing, it would appear that literally none of the issues of frost dk are being addressed which indicates that nobody is actually doing tests on it.
I am assuming that many of the testers simply went on for 5 minutes, decided it was terrible then repsecced to unholy, leaving frost dk to rot.
For example: why are icecap and obliteration still on the same tier? either move one to another tier or remove one from the game… this is literally an issue that was brought up in bfa.
Inexorable assault is still up against cold heart when they are fundamentally the same thing while icy talons is still a jokingly bad 6 second duration.
There is still a resource specific tier implying that the frost dks resources are not going to function properly without a specific one, completely wasting a talent on doing nothing. (think like how arms warriors gets skullsplitter/sudden death as a way better decision)
death’s reach is still terrible and is an anti-talent, literally removing functionality in comparison to just taking the other 2, this should have been replaced with grip of the dead because a frost dk slowing with death and decay makes sense… yet is the only spec that can’t.
The EU section is as dead as ever, but thats normal. the US section has some concerns brought up. but i see it as an evil circle sadly, people give feedback. it is ignored or fails to reach the right ears because…??? i dont know… that makes people stop giving feedback and soon enough the head thinks the design of the feet is fine despite having two left feet down there because it has not been informed that anything is wrong.
Or it can be the latter, an option that i have always hated to even consider but by the recent years they do know. but does not care, ive mentioned it before. as if some grudge is held against us.
I really wish that instead of the first talent row being useless, they’d give DKs some options for mobility.
Being a towering GOD OF DEATH but moving slow like a turtle in a wheelchair was fine while the damage and durability was worth it.
Nowadays even Blood DKs are kinda squishy and only manage to tank by having A LOT of self heals.
The content Blizzard creates relies more and more on dancing around various hazards, and DK has just ONE very minor speed buff on a rather long CD. Not to mention almost every tank is faster than you, so if they decide to tank walking away, there’s a big chance you aren’t going to be able to hit anything (especially if the mobs tank is walking away with are snare immune).
PS: I hate the proc effect of Rune of the Fallen Crusader. Obnoxious and LOUD explosion of HOLY LIGHT on a DK? And you cannot afford NOT to use it since it’s loads better than any other weapon enchant. /spit
This i feel is the biggest offense in our design, frost,blood and unholy to some extent even though they have been quite close to that anti healer slow sure creeping death on someone, I get it that classes need to be different, i get it that a melee should have other sources of damage and how they do it, if a fast hitting melee does dmg with many strikes and depending on how long they can stick to a target then they should rightly have movement and snare/utility to do just that, like you know alot of melee classes, especially since much of melee’s damage, all classes in BFA was moved to Auto attack, making it even more important to stick to your target either by keeping them slow or you being practically impossible to run away from like WW monk, with Frost DK’s our class fantasy… or rather the entire Dk fantasy if we are to backpedal from the class fantasy legion tried to push is that we are slow moving juggernauts with very little easy movement options, with some tricks to bring a target to us, but once we where in range and had a target to hit we could recover HP and Chunk people’s health like crazy, all was well, we had weaknesses, we had strenght, And now in BFA with death strike being changed again and again and again and now finally WORSE than it was at BFA release combined that we hardly do -that- much impressive burst once we get close with Death strike quite simply not managing to heal us up despite sacrificing all of our runic power into it (im talking PvP here obviously. but i feel that many of that concers can be applied to some PvE encounters aswell)
I had long thought that i didnt had the skills due to becoming older, coupled with my gear not being supergood or optimized…and despite me reading up and building a half decent icecap build with about 38% crit and 462 Ilvl i’m still not performing that well, gear is better but i guess i still need to learn to play my 3 button class with little to no utility that hardly strikes fear into someone like a fury/arms warrior charging someone or a rogue opening up and the damage just floods the screen.
I began to think that it might not only be me that is at fault here, i see videos. i see friends in BG’s, on other melee classes…casters, their toolkits, their rotations, the power and utility at their disposal shook me by complete suprise, i have never had a real Alt really in WoW. and seeing this other side has really made me think why it has to be this way, our talents. our playstyles, our general design, we are eating scraps by the back alley kitchen while the real players rock the heavy weights inside the main party room while it both seems and feel that we are not allowed to even insinuate to even have a strong gimmick or upside because thats how balance is supposed to be i guess, I was already grumpy before in 8.2, but hey, atleast frost was Durable as tanks then due to Unnerfed Deathstrike, that was a gimmick that was strong, atleast i had that… now?..I just dont know anymore, why are we left to rot in the cold outside? why is it allowed that so many others have upsides with no flaws. while we have flaws within flaws with nearly no upsides?
Well, perhaps i am just overlooking something like the new essence-like system/legendary but it won’t exactly feel good to know that once again that power is in a borrowed state as opposed to having a solid base.
if u like breath you will like frost DK
if u dont like breath then you will be a obliterator for fun
ice cap is buffed to 4 secs, which is good, it means at the start of the expantion you get 16sec off pillar (think its 4 ppm on KM) BUUUUUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT you do not have neither icy citadel nor frost whelps to actualy make pillar a good spell
I hope they bring the other two talents close to breath tbh. They don’t have to be better, just close enough to be viable. I’d personally prefer to deliver some brutal, vicious strikes empowered with the cold chill of death, instead of breathing frost on my enemy.
My brother from another mother.
We never asked to be breath knights.
Dont get me wrong, choice is good despite what blizzard is doing in not even caring if you dont play “that” way. I would even argue their design in this way kinda works, if the players playing said class feel ok with it, In the case of us Frost DK’s, both two hander and dual wield advocates i think that amy of us do NOT enjoy how breath was basically shoved down our throats and we had to like it come Legion after it was an interesting spell for all DK’s in WoD, Regardless if you enjoy two handed or dual wield the class fantasy, and what we WANTED when we saw this class was “quick and lethal Icy weapon strikes combined with runic empowerment” as the Spec description says and ultimately what you get is a circus performer gushbreathing a cold breeze forward while he flails about with weapons, not commanding respect in the way he strikes and locks down his opponents.
I hate to hate…but im genuinly sick of This spell existing, and the abhorrent obsession with it in the designers eyes.
The problem with breath is that it isn’t even good designwise, because you have to do such a specific action in order for it to work, especially with the increased cost… this results in it completely dominating the talent tree if you choose it in order to meet this specific criteria.
I wouldn’t mind but there really isn’t anything else to go up against it, obliteration has always been terrible and icecap was only good with the azerite powers attached… even then it still struggled without the corruptions being added on top of all that, which should of been a strong indicator that something isn’t right with this talent tier.
if you at least look at the streamers you only see:
hunters (mostly bm)
majority of rogue
a lot of mages
some warlocks
some warriors
UH dks
everything else not existing in beta testing on live streams
obviously it is only a small window but you can also check the beta threads in us forums which reflects similarly
You can bet your bottom dollar Fury war and all the main streamer/main “upper class” classes and specs will be goo or very coddled as usual, I like that Asmongold is trying to bring good criticisms to wow but his main class, fury war while also having a little situation that we had with single minded fury and 2 hand frost, has never really been dumpstered, even when a warlock spec in legion was busted and doing bad dps they did an in patch re design intervention.
I’ve said so before that i dont want to believe that some classes get prefferential treatment, but it sure like hell feels that way after 10+ years playing wow
classes do get different treatment, not necessarily by the % of players play them but somehow always the same specs are discussed about and on the top.
rogue mage is the best example for never ever being bad, be it pvp, dungeons, open world or raids.
it is also a problem that you can tune numbers as much as you like but the tool kit makes or breaks classes unfortunately alpha is over and class changes are pretty much donezo for sure.
some things blizz also doesnt want to change even if every single player on earth say it is terrible e.g. enhance survivability.
streamers obviously pull more people toreards certain specs and there is also another reason why certain specs are pushed: because they might be more fun to watch.
not many people like to watch resto shamy when holy pala game play looks much better. nobody wants to see enh shamy when you can watch mages do all kinds of fancy stuff.
it is what it is i guess.
unholy is more interesting to watch than frost, so frost gets dumpstered and plays like chewing gum.
even in bfa frost plays like absolute garbage
I have had a chance to play it for roughly like an hour or two on a friend’s account who had access and they are still clunky and as slow as ever. Tried living through this during this expansion but I feel like I’m finally gonna reroll warrior. The legendaries don’t help since every other class has their own versions which are just as good and better so that’s just false hope for us. Same stale, slow and unrewarding feel as BFA. RIP
The main issue is whenever DKs get a decent buff all the other classes complain and make it an issue because they are not use to not seeing DK perform at all. It’s odd when you see a FDK achieving any sucess nowadays that it instantly gets bought up when they do. People were complaining about FDK damage in Legion resulted in big pace nerfs in BFA alongside with the GCD. FDK needs to have the highest melee damage output - more than warriors, paladins and definitely DHs since they lack so much in other areas. We have the worst mobility and one of the worst defensive capabilities. FDKs still have no attributes to level the playing field.
The big problem I’ve found is that the re-introduction of 2H spec is largely pointless. The slower swings and the 75% reduction in KM procs associated with them are not compensated by the marginally bigger 2H Obliterates.
Also, going 2H you lose a runeforge. The new ones suck and there is still no viable replacement for Crusader.
It is entirely off and I find myself wondering yet again what exactly the devs have been doing the last few months that such glaring oversights make it through alpha and beta testing and still persist on the pre-patch PTR.
As my downer self have pointed out before, i dont want to spit the amount of vitriol i do at the devs in charge. but… you cannot force me say i like a poop sandwich when you give it to me and say they worked hard on it. No, if you hate our class that much find people that love it and want to work on it instead of ruining another 2+ years of another expansion…if this even gets read by anyone even remotelely close with the design team or works on it.
When the PTR came out, UH was full stuff that wasn’t working.
I actually made a post about how content creators that “tested” DK said that it’s in a good place.
If the DK was in a good place in the alfa and beta, why is it full of easily noticeable bugs on the PTR?
I liked so much the WOTLK frost design, huge Obliterate hits and frost strikes, even with 2wielded. Now we are only viable as icecap because of the 52% crit and 40%+ haste + 4%crit dmg increased x2. I dont like syndra breath cause, its like combust mage burst, but wihout the big numbers from mage and no mobility from mages, etc etc. Never like it before.
Even with our " now current stats" ppl use to dont pick us as dps for M+. Queue priority "Mage>Hunter>Rogue/DH>everything else.
