This is better
1 Like
Sadly a bad story is still a story.
Which is how those hacks are keeping their jobs.
It took me taking up FF14 to truly grasp how wrong Blizzard was to dump most of the âstoryâ into novels instead of ingame content.
1 Like
People replying to this thread are so frigginâ confused. They literally seem unable to tell the difference between RPG player-driven story vs narrative story and cutscenes.
Come on folks, youâre better than this.
OP hit the nail on the head when he said he was tired of losing control of his character for a cutscene wherein his character may or may not do idiotic things. Iâm tired of it, too. Itâs not fun and I think it takes a lot of work to make.
1 Like
WoW left the path of a player driven story over a decade ago. Since TBC.
I think that was one of the major mistakes bliz made tbh. the wow playerbase isnât the FF14 one.
Blizzard keeps trying to force everyone to do all the content, and it is frustrating, because everything gets watered down because of it.
There are lots of players who dont care for the MMO part, they dont want to raid or do M+ or pvp, but itâs the only way to get gear, so they feel they get forced into that, so they have a bad experience at max level. Blizzard are also limited in their design because of that, because the people who have no interest in it should also be able to do the content ect.
On the other side we also have a lot of people who dont care for the RPG elements for what ever reason, but they get forced into it by double legendary and all the other kind of rewards. And blizzard is ones again forced to water it down to a quick and bland story.
I think blizzard should just accpet this, and just let the people who want to raid, pvp and do M+ do that, without forcing them through a bunch of story content that doesnât interest them. And that should also free them up to make the stories so much greater. They dont have to rush a story that could last a whole tier into 5 weeks because of X reward. And would hopefully give the more RPG driven people more and better stories to sink their teeth into over a whole tier.
Edit
Who knows, maybe by saying âLetâs not force everyone to do everything, and just make each part as good as we canâ it might make people WANT to do everything.
2 Likes
Well, itâs certainly gotten A LOT more prevalent to the point of being irritating.
One of the core design goals of the original game was to not do this. Itâs not like they couldnât - just look at the intro not to mention Warcraft 3, which is full of story-driven cutscenes.
It just doesnât work very well for WoW. I donât really care when they started it, itâs still bad regardless.
It is less about it existing and more about it being used as content padding.
Making cutscenes is far more work per minute of content than making gameplay if the gameplay systems already exist.
Just noting that Shadowlands takes like 5-6 hours to level through while vanilla, with no cutscenes, takes 200 hours to level through should be plenty of evidence of that.
So whatever this is, itâs not padding.
Perhaps the issue is that it is a predetermined path (on the first time). Meanwhile in vanilla one can follow many paths from the start.
My game time might expire today so if I do not reply it will be due to that 
Well just enjoy the game, enjoy the story, enjoy the mini-movies, etc. If you are doing them 1st time - covenant campaigns are fun, and it lets you know them a little bit better. For alts - you can skip all of it.
But really, you donât need to do them all at once, just get your main covenant to max, do the campaign, play end game, and when you feel it - do the other campaigns. As for NF covenant campaign - for me that one is the worst of 4, because it just feels very random and doesnât follow a clear path (go find night warrior, help some old Loa, then help geh couple, then fight off some trees, then help Loa again⌠I mean, itâs not that good, compared to Kyrian or Ventyr ones, where there is a clear path);
1 Like
Well, thatâs certainly part of it.
Vanilla goes deeply into your racial and class heritage. You can choose to do or skip any quest for any reason, and you can choose to do or skip any dungeon and any zone for any reason. Based on Warcraft 3âs story you start out in totally different environments with different quests to undertake and so on.
In Shadowlands, by contrast, SPOILERS bringing the last Covenant seal into Torghast is a stupid thing to do but something your character must do. You have no choice - thatâs how the story is written.
Regardless of whether your character is aligned with death, regardless of your characterâs morals, interests, and heritage, you WILL do nearly every single quest in the levelling because if you do not you simply canât advance your character. Itâs garbage.
No worries about not responding. All up to you and your sub. 
yeah it seems that our lack of choice to not do inhumane or dumb decisions as part of the main questlines (especially as horde) is a huge problem in this.
Skyrim is not an MMO but it is a perfect example of a game where one can do whatever they want and make their own story. Especially with mods.
2 Likes
I LOVE Skyrimâs freedom, and I basically never do the main quest lol. Cba with it.
Such a wonderful, wonderful world design - though to be honest Morrowind has better world design.
we are all waiting for those madlads to make a fan remake of morrowind and oblivion with skyrim graphics
This actually remined me of this short videoâŚ
1 Like
Donât hold your breath. I told them theyâd never finish after contributing a bit myself in 2016 and they all got really mad and said theyâd be done within a few years.
Yeah, I can see that.
Itâs not really the same. Itâs an integrate part of RPGs.
The quality of the narrative is another subject entirely (and largely subjective).
Not equal in the slightest.
The definition of what an MMORPG is:
an online role-playing video game in which a very large number of people participate simultaneously.
In other words; they share a world/setting. But how or even if you interact with those other players is entirely up to you.
Now, take the definition of an RPG:
A role-playing game is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting or through a process of structured decision-making regarding character development.
As you can see, the narrative is actually part of the definition. Meaning itâs an integral part of the genre. Remove it and itâs no longer considered an RPG.
You could remove all the multiplayer activities from an MMORPG and still have it be classified as such, because you still share the online world with other players.
Thatâs the difference. So, itâs not equal.
Playing with other people and overcoming a challenge is also and integrate part of MMOâs
MMORPG
abbreviation Digital Technology.
massively multiplayer online role-playing game: any story-driven online video game in which a player, taking on the persona of a character in a virtual or fantasy world, interacts with a large number of other players.
I too can find definitions that support me in it not being for single player experiences.
According to a definition you found, mine contradicts that ofc. So where does that leave us?
Maybe use this one?
https://www.masterclass.com/articles/what-does-mmorpg-stand-for
Or this?
https://www.techopedia.com/definition/1919/massively-multiplayer-online-role-playing-game-mmorpg
Or this?
How about instead of forcing anyone to do anything, it should just be a sandbox where you get to make your own story and play the way you like?
Actually, that definition merely just strengthens my previous post.
massively multiplayer online role-playing game: any story-driven online video game in which a player, taking on the persona of a character in a virtual or fantasy world, interacts with a large number of other players.
Story-driven. Your definition even has THAT in it. Makes my argument even stronger.
As for multiplayer; nowhere does it state that. It says âinteractâ. Even just doing a /wave at someone is interacting with them. So not sure what you think you just âprovedâ but⌠You didnât support your argument at all.
No, actually it doesnât. As I made clear above in this post.
Well, WoW is not and has never been a sandbox game.
So thereâs that.
MMORPG = role-playing game with a lot of people in it. Thatâs it.
The fact that itâs online means that interactions with other players are an important part of it. That interaction being more or less direct is irrelevant. You may run dungeons with other people or simply share a persistent world, both count, both are fine.
To me, the interesting part, and the most relevant to this discussion, is defining âRPGâ.
Imho roleplaying is not a matter of traditional storytelling (the best RPG ever may not even have a main story) nor strictly a matter of choice.
A roleplaying game is a game where the player controls a character in a defined narrative space and is authorised to affect that space in an emergent way.
This doesnât mean that an RPG needs a main quest with dialogue options, quite the opposite in fact. In a videogame the âstoryâ isnât just whatâs told by the narrator, itâs first and foremost the one players act out.
Running up a hill, defeating a boss, fishing for three hours straight, selling leather on the auction house are all âstoryâ, theyâre events that happened in the frame of a narrative universe shared by other players, and they happened because the players wanted them to happen, because thatâs what they would do. Theyâre not choosing an option or another, theyâre using the gameâs systems to interact with the world and with each other in an emergent way.
The issue with WoWâs current storytelling (and XIV has absolutely nothing to do with it, I donât get why it gets constantly brought up) is it spent years introducing mandatory story elements into the game. Itâs not a problem per se, a D&D master does it all the time, but a D&D master normally asks 4-5 players âhey, do you want a vampire theme this time?â and they can say no. WoW expansions donât offer that choice, and this is inevitable, but the less of the story is mandatory, the better.
RPGs arenât about playing a story, otherwise Super Mario Bros would be an RPG. RPGs are about interacting with a narrative space in an emergent way.
WoWâs narrative space is made of mobs to hunt, ponds to fish, bosses to kill, and supervillains trying to reset the universe.
The last part is where the current design faulters: WoWâs âtraditionalâ story told through text and cutscenes leaves too little room for the player to play the role they want to play.
Itâs the main reason why I think XIV barely qualifies as an RPG.
The story should be as optional as possible, not only because some people just want to raid and canât be arsed to run through a few hours of questing, but first and foremost because I want to make up my own story. And these two things arenât even that different: making up my own story, in a context where the gameplay is storytelling, means being able to play the way I want.
The way WoW was designed years ago (not just Classic, think even MoP) was extremely more open than it is now from a narrative standpoint. You could do what you wanted to do, you could attribute to your actions whatever value or meaning, and Iâd argue this made for a more immersive and satisfying narrative experience, while a more strict, traditional, linear and mandatory storytelling weakens the narrative experience of an RPG.
1 Like