Exactly this. A ripe opportunity to see how the world where Alliance is victorious yet maimed is rebuilding, and potential to explore smaller conflicts aside from an all-out war. Outland’s problems have never gone away, quite a number of Pandaren still rightfully treat outsiders as colonizers, Dark Iron clan is anything but united even with the new emperor coming into adulthood, and all of this and more is aside of territory disputes over yet unclaimed lands like Northrend, possible involvement of goblin cartels from Kezan into making a fortune out of the mess to fix and maybe even building another minor evil faction of Fyrakk’s followers.
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Yea, I agree, I was pointing out towards the more recent things. Overfriendliness and willing to accept and forgive enemies who were just a moment ago very sure about killing you. Yea, I am aware of the WoD ending but it got it’s own fare share of hate for years already. Now it’s everywhere, Horde and Alliance being best friends, Gilneans randomly forgiving Forsaken, Kul’tirans forgiving Jaina for obvious treason, Draenei forgiving Eredar becouse random one guy, accepting Vyranoth becouse Iridikron and Fyrakk bad, accepting an infinite dragon becouse subjective POV. Sorry, but this isn’t overcoming anything and it doesn’t work.
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I am a bit skeptical of this too. Mostly because it doesn’t feel earned and what isn’t earned can be undone at a moment’s notice.
But I would like proper “let’s transcend conflicts and faction divisions”. Anyway, I am getting off-topic.
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BFA’s cinematic is literally the best one to date.
Nothing gets you going like Sylvanas screaming from the top of her lungs “FOR THE HORDE!” and watching that tauren ram through the alliance line.
We were BETRAYED
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Abso-freaking-lutely.
The setup was right. There. Let Genn and the likes of Rogers steer an inexperienced Anduin into ‘pre-emptive’ strikes, Genn because he couldn’t let go of vengeance, Rogers because of whatever her deal was, whether it was vengeance or good ol’ entrenched hatred etc.
And instead of running MoP all over again But Worse™ and Villain-batting another otherwise interesting character, have Sylvanas realise that she’s actually come to care about this mismatched, dischordant bunch of misfits, and she’ll be damned if she lets some jumped up Human ruin things a second time…
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Probably the most lore-accurate tauren depiction we’ve seen. They’re absurdly strong.
Not to mention even Saurfang deciding to pick up that Horde-banner one more time after, as we see in hind-sight, wanting to commit suicide. I’m a die-hard Alliance-fan, but I’ll give the Horde that, the charge from both Saurfang, the Tauren and the rest of the Horde was epic.
Anduin did his best with “For the Alliance” but, I dunno… man’s voice just doesn’t seem build for roaring ( And “For the Horde” just rolls off the tongue easier).
I also liked the difference they showed in how Alliance and Horde worked in that cinematic. If the Horde is in dire straits, they’ll whip themselves into a charge, whereas the Alliance fights on by making sure everyone can fight on even after suffering heavy losses.
( Though this does make me wish we could see the reverse of these philosophies sometimes. In WC2 it was said that after Lothar fell at Blackrock Spire, the Alliance grew so enraged and frenzied that it scared even the most blood-crazed orc or ogre there.)
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So I haven’t read much of the thread, but I do agree with the title.
A cool thing they could do for both factions at the same time imo would be this:
Rework Lordaeron into an actual city, and make the Under City accessible from it in some shady area.
Humans above, Undead below. It could have a Piltover and Zaun vibe from LoL.
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I’d like that. And like with the Horde buff in Bel’ameth, they can add flavour about how even though you’re allowed on the other side’s portion of the city, you feel unwelcome.
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Indeed! That could be a really cool addition for both sides.
It also leaves room for those who are more tolerant to welcome the other side to their district, and allowing cross-trading/services to take place, while also respecting the history of both sides and how such a reconciliation isn’t going to happen overnight. But it does signal that the reconciliation is happening, slowly, at least in official capacity and doesn’t tie the hands of characters who aren’t ready to reconcile.
The lengths that a little flavour debuff can go for immersion. That was the coolest part of Bel’ameth for me.
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Isn’t this just Danuser-core post-hoc meddling to inject his cosmocism “rar rar titans bad lol look at my moral deconstructivism twitter am i popular yet” shtick?
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One issue is that Chronicles were advertised as the lore bible, so when it turns out that the lore bible is as malleable and canon-until-contradicted as the rest of the setting, it’s a bit of a disappointment.
Another issue is the justification for that malleability with the statement that Chronicles were history from the point of view of the Titans and there’s a lot of things that they don’t know, which not only turned them into unreliable narrators but was also contradicted later down the line.
After the revelation that the Titanic Watchers have intentionally been purging history that does not support the Titanic agenda, by painting the Black Empire as an “age of chaos and misery, a pernicious blight that the keepers eradicated” despite its “advancements,” it seems like Chronicles is now history as curated by the Titanic Keepers instead.
I don’t have a problem with the Titans being amoral, even though I find the idea of the Black Empire being capable of anything positive a little bemusing. The big issue for me is that Chronicles were first advertised as the one true lore bible, then as history as the Titans know it, then as history as curated by the Titanic Watchers.
We shouldn’t have to adjust the way that we look at a book this many times.
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I’ve always thought of Titans as the ‘lesser evil’ rather than anything inherently good. Considering as far back as Vanilla we knew the Titan’s would prefer a planet of mindless automatons, and many races only gained their ‘humanity’ through the Curse of Flesh - brought about by the Old Gods.
In WotLK this was reinforced by Algalon basically wanting to ‘reset’ the planet back to that period to align it with the Titan’s vision. Something he is quoted to having done to many other planets in the cosmos - wiping out all sentient life on that planet everytime.
The only time we team with the Titan’s is to defeat something even more evil and immediate.
I do agree with the Chronicle revisionism and that it was advertised as a ‘source of truth’, but I guess that reflects real world history in a way - truth really depends on the perspective and there is no single version.
Even without messing with the Chronicles there were examples of the followers of the Old Gods forming civilizations able to survive and thrive, like nerubians and mantid. All it took instead of retconning was exploring both cases somewhat deep… which will be exactly what happens in TWW. The point is, they are completely alien to both mortal races and the Titanic order, so no wonder they were wiped out from history.
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It’s come across as forcing a square onto a circular hole.
Kinda hard to depict them as villainous when they’re diametrically opposed to the magic that induces body horror and insanity.
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They aren’t villainous, but neither do they care about anything except their plans. It’s just like with King Mechagon, that wanted to end the curse of flesh at any cost including eradicating all the races that don’t fit in the scheme. In the end we kill him, regardless of whether he was evil. And same goes with the actual titans, because no one would stand by and wait for the Halls of Origination to burn them from the face of Azeroth.
I wouldn’t describe the Titans as amoral, they’re just so far detached from mortality as quasi-deities that they’re not going to perceive the universe in the same way as someone far more finite. I have no problem with their morality being completely alien and divorced from our own.
Ordering the universe is what’s right to them, but it may prove not to be right for us and that’s an interesting story beat. Creations defying the will of their creators – we’ve already seen in Legion that the notion of destiny is something we’re going to flip the bird to, so a bunch of celestial superbeings wanting to preordain our purpose isn’t necessarily going to go down well.
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Well that’s a bit like saying the Scarlet Crusade can’t be evil because they’re opposed to undeath and the Scourge. Two wrongs don’t make a right, as they say
the a in amoral stands for alien
but also if johnny human said “Do you consider the opinions of the ants as you burn their hill to make way for your farm?” we’d be like ???
Titans don’t get a pass because they’re taller than us. We’re not operating on Invader Zim logic.
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