convenience started in wotlk, proceeded with cata, until it completely changed how game plays in mop, with removing both talents and professions that were RPG once.
Cata ruined open world lvling, mop ruined everything that was left as RPG.
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Quest Trackers - Have been added in the last 5 months of the expac because everyone was using Quest Helpers anyway.
Sporty gameplay with combat - what?
Raids and Dungeons - what?
AoE grind - classes that could aoe have done so since vanilla. Yes, vanilla, I clearly remember mages aoe farming felcloth in Felwood
Classes did not become similar at all. The only thing was that buffs were made raid wide and shared by more than 1 class. How exactly did not having to run with 6 shamans and swap them 1 by 1 to provide lust to certain groups killed the RPG element?
it started with wotlk, look what old devs were talking on youtube, sport gameplay started with wotlk, proceeded with cata, ended with mop, completely changed RPG and how you play game.
You are moaning players did not wanted to play like you wanted them to play. Most of what you described is game reacting to what players were doing - and it looks like they didnt care about your ârpgâ
That has nothing to do with wrath? Itâs that people started to play the game competitively. Not that the game made them do it. But even so, this has started way before LK.
You werenât in Wrath though, so how can you comment?
Didnât you say you started in Cata?
Sounds like a good story = a good RPG to you. What made vanilla a great RPG to me was that there was no story i had to follow on a linear path. There was a world to explore and to find out what was going on around. I never was a center piece of story, nor was i a great hero who was supposed to save the world.
In an RPG you play a character in a fantasy world. Story, stats, loot⌠they are just a bonus in role playing game experience. In an MMO you are supposed to experience this together with thousands of other players. âTogetherâ, not âsimultaneouslyâ. Many of the newer MMORPG games that claim to be MMOs are just single player games you can play simultaneously with other people.
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No not everybody. And when it becomes a part of the UI I can not NOT use it. Iâm OK with your âQoLâ changes as long at they are of the âDonât like it? - Donât use it!â variety, but Questhelper is shoved down out throats with this.
Yes they did! Afaik all classes have CC all clases have self-heal etc. etc. ad absurdum. And with forcedspec you jhav no freedom of choice for talents.
Just because the names and ressources of a spell are different and they have different animations they are still the same.
When one way to play becomes the only way itâs wrong!
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Does that mean I donât know what happened during wrath, in their company? I watched many old devs that were speaking about what ideas went as ââwrongââ ideas when they wanted to tell them its wrong way to do it, they didnât listen.
Youâre thinking of the wrong expansion dude.
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I thought we were also discussing if Cata was a Classic xpac / when CLassic stopped.
I have no idea, but when you state
You are quite blatantly lying, so why should any other point you make be taken seriously!?
I played both vanilla, though I joined at phase 3 because I was on my job duty, and I played TBC whole phase 1, did raids and all that, then I stopped, and I played full TBC in private server but only PVP because raids didnt work on that server.
The two hallmarks of RPG, in my opinion are the development of a character you play a role of, and the interaction of that character with the story of the world he is in.
That does not mean he has to be a central hero of a single storyline, but it is often the case. What I was trying to say is both of those elements are kind of weak in WoW, probably due to itâs MMO nature in large part. Your influence over how your character develops is very limited. Just 50 talent points that you can really only reasonably distribute in maybe 5-10 ways and gear you loot and equip to grow stronger. And some side stuff like profession specializations. Those elements are fun, and I like them, but the character development is very limited and shallow as far as RPGs go. Same with âstoryâ, there are some interesting storylines, and I very much enjoyed them. But in the end your character doesnât have much impact. You come to town, collect 10 bear asses from 30 bears, get new leather bracer and leave the town precisely as it was. Very shallow interaction.
Look, WoW is widely considered best MMO RPG, and I gave it basically most of my free time over some 7+3 years by now. But as far as Roleplaying games go, it is fairly rudimentary.
Sounds to me more like you really like open world games, not necesserily roleplaying games.
RPG - realism in all kinds of things such as for fast example: stats or talents, look how they designed stats in vanilla and talent trees, maces have chance to stun, swords to double strike and more example like those.
It has to have that realism that we are fond of because how it pushes us to feel more grounded therefore you feel that oldschool rpg vibe, for example however if you designed something around spells it has more of feminine nature vibe to us because of mysticism, feminine is usually linked with mysticism.
Therefore they need to design more grounded RPG to feel more ââgroundedââ - oldschool.
This is a load of nonsense you are saying. There is very little realism in how you describe weapons. Maces donât âstunâ, they break bones and cave in breastplates. Swords are a fast weapon, yes, but they lack reach and are basically a status symbol and a duel weapon. If weapons were realistic, 90% of all weapons in warcraft would be spears and polearms. ESPECIALLY against all the massive enemies. And spellcasting and mysticism has always been an entirely masculine domain, it only changed with the Victorian Englands romanticising of medieval witch trials. Where actually large majority of all accused of witchcraft were men. All the historical Magi, all the theurgists and summoners were always MEN. All the mystery religions, all the cults with supposed mystical knowlede, they were almost unanimously forbidden to women. You only really get women involved in any of this when the destructive forces took over secret societies sometime after 30 year war in Europe.
You sound like you really have very surface knowledge of this stuff. And some personal definiton of what âRPGâ means that doesnât really have anything to do with what most people use it as.
For a videogame to be called Classic there are only two things
To be old, a game canât be a Classic game it was released yesterday.
To have enough people interested in the old game to play again today in 2022. An old Japanese SNES game that only 3 players remember canât be considered Classic, but probably for those 3 players if they continue playing that game today for them it will be a Classic game. Probably all of us have some game that we play as children but was not popular and no one remembers them today. For me, such type of game is also Classic but I understand there is no chance for them to ever be rereleased.
In the end, this means every old videogame could be a Classic game for someone and only those that have enough people interested today so a rereleased is profitable will have a classic/collection/remaster/remake/whatever rerelease.
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I agree with you man, but you gotta be careful because retail andies and wrath babies 2.0 are easily offended
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