With a lot of classes getting having bloated abilities removed for the better, PvP talents remain overlooked. I get that normal talents come first, but there are some fairly strong offenders in terms of bloat in pvp talents. They also add 3 new keybinds, and with PvP perhaps needing some ease of access, it may be a bit too much to have people give it a try.
First, here a some of the ones I have encountered on the classes I play:
Inner light and shadow.
Pressing a global between doing dmg and healing for no other purpose that a passive buff is really not really fun nor skillful gameplay.
Sharpen Blade
I know it’s iconic, but aside from using it when people are low-ish, it’s not really much more exciting than a flat increase or perhaps adding the 50% mortal would to execute?
Death from above
Trying to add to your rotation with pvp talents just doesn’t feel like a good idea as it just competes with other finishers and is only better if it does more numbers.
Thoughtsteal
We just have too much cc already, too many globals, and too fast gameplay to press two to get a single cc
Archangle
It works very similar to and could replace Evangilism.
I would also like to see a cutting down in the total amount of actives you can pick. Some of these can be really central on your bars, and when you don’t play PvP they’re just grey buttons taking up an important keybind. I say this as someone who plays both pvp and pve and would like to have it be easier to switch or invite friends from one part of the game to the other.
I know that this seems like taking away power and skill, but compexity is not always skillful. If arcane mages had to do a puzzle mid arena for a dmg buff that would be hard and complex but not skillful nor fun. And I’m sure there are more examples in PvP talents that feel that way.
What I will actually purpose is having PvE talents.
Just like PvP feels like a side game mode, maybe make stuff like shockwave (which is needed in dungeons) a PvE thing so they can reduce the amount of micro CC in the arena.
Also don’t forget that because of PvP modifiers rotations become totally different. But a normal Joe wouldn’t know every single difference so they will think execute is doing low damage in PvE so why press it in PvP when it’s actually buffed and makes the priority list different.
I speak for warrior , since that’s my class but I am sure other players who play both PvP and PvE feel the same.
Less stops and micro cc is actually something PvE player have avocated for as well. Mobs in dungeon seem have a lot of persistant and annoying mechanics in order to deal with all the stops, so people are saying that if we cut down a bit, perhaps the mobs wouldn’t have to be spam casting one shots and needing cc rotations just to gather up.
But that aside, yeah PvP is super different. I’d just like for people to feel inclined to give it a try. I remember so guilds that did RBGs after raid or arenas while waiting for their full m+ group. Now, whenever I suggest it, people are like “I don’t have pvp talents keybinded” “I don’t have the profession pieces”.
Different dmg values I fine I think, you learn that as you play, but I personally would like PvE and PvP to be easier to switch between, even if that has its own set of problems.
I never understood the need for pvp talents tbh.
The game didn’t had them at the start and everything was fine.
Not only that, but we already have choice nodes in the talent tree and different scaling between pvp and pve, so blizz can just give us everything and balance the numbers.
And that’s fine, but it’s not the case anymore.
Spell bloat is a thing and choice nodes can be used to go either pve or pvp with talents.
So yeah you are right, maybe during legion it made sense after all, but rn not so much imo.
it doesnt work like that tho. most classes play completely different in pve then in pvp. different builds and different playstyles. u cant just tune a few numbers and expect it to have the same effect on pve and pvp.
what do u mean by that? the game wasnt less unbalanced at the start nor until the introduction of pvp talents.
I agree. Imo pve and pvp should be backed into the talent trees in the form of talent choices, as it was years ago. Then on top of that you can tune the numbers of different spells in regards of the content is played.
I don’t know if I can say it was less unbalanced, it was just different. Some specs worked only for pve and some other for pvp. You had outliners who could do both with some talent change.
That is not my point tho. What I’m saying is that rn we have different issues, for example: spell bloating for almost every class/spec, CCs/micro CCs everywhere, buffs on buffs on debuffs to the point where u need addons to understand what is going on, etc. In order to prune the ammount of stuff you have in pvp imo a good choice would be to delete pvp talents and put many choice nodes in the talent tree. So instead of having 9 talents + 3 pvp talents, you could have 12 choice nodes, where one is “pve” and the other is “pvp”, reducing it to 6 effective talents to have. It’s just an idea, i’m not saying it’s perfect by any means, but this game needs to be simplified in it’s mechanics because the addition of hero talents is gonna make it crazy to balance for the devs.
But it feels like most classes needs a complete PvP talent revamp, most have 2 locked talents that the play 100% of the time and one the switch between max 3 situational talents that not that impactful
No need for PvE talents, you can change how the spells work in different settings.
For Shockwave, you could make it so the tooltip says that it will only stun non-player characters. To make it useful in PvP, you could increase its damage, and it would now because a big damage AOE spell without any stun attached to it.
I get rogue out of stalth and yet I am punished by being instant cheap shotted - an ability that should only be usable while rogue is in stealth.
I know that there exists a rogue class designer who tought that it would be cool for rogues to use stealth abilities outside of stealth in PvE and that’s fine. But why is this talent allowed in PvP ?
That talent is a prime candidate for PvE only ability. In PvE mobs don’t care if they are CC, hell they are designed to be CCed or they do nasty stuff.
In PvP … people just can’t play because … stuns are stupid.
Or they can make Cheap shot root players just like Charge does now?
I would prefer removing pvp talents altogether tbh but then you would need to bake some of them into the normal tree. Which is mostly doable but theres some things like shaman burrow or phase shift that would be too good in pve bc you would be able to outplay mechanics
so yeah i think removing majority of pvp talents would work but i dont have a solution for the 2 spells above and im sure theres many more that i missed