^^ This, like for me the grind in Legion should have stopped when you completed your weapon tree. You should have been done at that point.
They really don’t understand the concept of wanting to complete something and be done.
4 Likes
Opinions can be disingenuous only when financial or other gain result from them. So no, it’s a bad expansion in my opinion (and many others slowly agree with this)
I would probably hate burrowed powers less, if they wouldn’t then define the spec.
For example with my bear convoke is a def, raid heal, or dmg CD depending how I use it. As tank I’m not to depening on it.
On boomkin during whole 9.0 convoke was what defined him together with the Legendary.
That’s why in BfA with Essence+Azerite bonuses, and later corruptions suddenly most specs were burst specs with comparable bad dmg outside of CDs.
When It comes to grinds I don’t know if Blizzard can even do anything else.
They seem to be unable to make appealing rewards that aren’t tied to player power.
Unless you like a mount in blue, dark blue, light blue, and greyish blue where you are given one colour for free.
So very true, but it seems that is their preferred state of the game
They don’t have to do anything but steal the idea from the forums, youtube and reddit.
Literally everyone came up the idea of spell animation tints like green fire, It was even proposed as an alternative to power gains from covenants. I can guarantee that the majority of the player base would lose their minds if they could essentially customize the theme of their class/spec abilities.
It could be as lazy as “Like what if your fire mage had Blue fire” to something more creative “Your Shadow priest now uses light themed spell instead of shadow (will anyone care if it doesn’t make sense)”.
Exactly my feelings in my POST
We get an unbalanced, unfinished expac, that becomes beta-final at patch x.1 or x.2. The fact is that I am starting to think that the DEVs are so low on trusting their own product, that they see this the only viable strategy to keep up MAU UP … that is BY force.
Blizzard, if you let ALTs free to have unlocked and leveled any of your expac features after they have been fully discovered on a MAIN, then you will have your MAU up with players playing ALTs for fun on the content they WANT to play.
LE: The MAU = The MAW = HELL 
1 Like
Raiding is a system. It provides endgame progression.
PvP is a system. It provides endgame progression.
Dungeon endgame progression was increased immensely with the adding of M+. A Legion thing btw.
So since you’re talking about the systems you mentioned, I can only conclude that this is just another complaint about ‘being forced to do’ ‘boring’, ‘faceroll’, ‘mundane’ etc content. People like that have already ruined WQs in Shadowlands with their previous complaining.
World content deserves its own pillar as endgame content. It deserves its own progression. And yeah; if you don’t want to do any of it, you shouldn’t have to… Just like I shouldn’t have to do M+ or raids to get some proper high gear. It goes both ways.
1 Like
when the hamster wheel starts rolling, it doesn’t stop until the hamster does
I don’t fully agree here. The statements “Borrowed power is good” and “the players attacking them for it are right” don’t contradict each other.
The issue is not that borrowed power is bad, it’s that Blizzard’s implementation of it sucks. If we take a look back, MoP is the generally agreed up on pinnacle of class design. WoD started to trim some excess fat, but classes were still mostly fine.
Legion then pruned a lot of core abilites. Yet it took people until BfA to complain about borrowed power. The reason, in my opinion, is because Legion’s implemtation of borrowed power - artefacts - was vastly superior to anything that followed in its wake. Artefacts had a good and consistent progression, and offered meaningful variations to the spec’s core gameplay.
WE only noticed how barebones class design had become when BfA removed the artefacts and replaced them with a distinctively inferior borrowed power. Azerite armour was too random, too generic, and did not feel meaningful at all. Essences were a step in the right direction, but I think it was too little too late.
And even with Shadowlands, the covenants are simply… boring. Artefacts felt like they belonged to our characters because they were these iconic weapons. Covenants are too removed from our characters. And even soulbinds are set once, then forgotten until the next rebalancing.
Borrowed power is a great way to stop, or at least limit, power creep. But it has to be done right, and ideally the characters will still be able to carry over something - even if only for sentimental reasons - into the next expansion, so progression didn’t feel completely wasted. And I feel that Legion might have been lightning in a bottle, as Blizzard has completely failed to recreate this level of engagement with borrowed power since.
1 Like
I agree with this. I don’t do M+ or raiding or pvp.
But I do play alts. Korthia gear progression seems reasonable on my main but no way will I be grinding Death’s Advance or Codex Tiers on my Alts. Frankly I’d be surprised if I stick with Codex to tier 6 on my main.
I want more open world. I want more zones so my alts can have different leveling paths.
I don’t want linear quest campaigns (as the only questing). I don’t want renown, conduits, AP, Legendaries (maybe a MOP style Cloak is ok but all these rng ones have soiled the name “Legendary”).
I want fun factions like Tillers. Even boring (but optional) ones like Org’rila.
I want professions to be fun again.
6 Likes
I get that. I really do.
I LOVE YOU NOW! 
3 Likes
There were plenty of complaints back then too. Mostly about random legendary acquisiton (later a vendor was added to help with this) and about AP grind on multiple artifacts making spec swapping much harder (a lesson never truly learnt).
Legion got away with a lot of issues with its systems though thanks to a good flow on content. Tons of fan-service lore (Demon Hunters, Illidan, Argus, Dalaran, Doomhammer, Ashbringer).
The reason most of the complaining flooded out in BFA wasn’t solely because of BFA’s borrowed power systems but Legion’s. Once we lost all that borrowed power we felt robbed and weak and generally not happy. Same happened when we lost all those OP corrupted pieces in SL.
1 Like
Yes, the legendary system sucked. But the artefact system itself was rather well received if I remember correctly. The only complaints I can think of were the rate at which AP could be earned (which they adjusted later on) and that not getting weapon upgrades over the expansion was a bit dull.
Can they just bring back the PvP gearing from WoD or anything before WoD? No legendaries, no M+, no raids, no elite gear for anything other than cosmetics.
The artifact was fun but it had flaws, you had to be lucky with relic drops, bad relics meant bad weapon and weapons are the most important piece of gear. It also gated alts.
Ye its pretty sad to watch them make everything worse every expansion…
1 Like
Borrowed power is a horrible thing
Nothing good could possible come out of it
When you need x legendary y extra trait, Z godknowswhat to work on somewhat basic level, the Game have a serious problem
1 Like
So you want to go back to raid logging once a week.
Sooo no borrowed power to you means raid logging ?
1 Like
What did people do before Legion?
A lot of things be more specific.
It’s raid logging even with borrowed power
1 Like