She has been useless and harmful to Alliance for a looong time. When do we kill her and get rid of her I wonder.
1- She caused her own father’s death by siding with orcs and betraying her father. She acts like she is sad but don’t be fooled by crocodile tears.
2- She wasn’t with us in Legion when our King was in dire need of help in Broken Shore when we needed her. She didn’t come to use that mass teleport trick and save Varian because Varian would try to punish the coward Horde’s betrayal but she unfortunately saved Anduin during invasion of Undercity. Once again, she helped the Horde by saving Anduin, Anduin is also a Horde you know, since he apparently enjoyed when Night Elves got burnt alive together with their tree and made peace (so called armistice heh) without demanding any payback in return for the atrocities Horde has been commiting throughout the War.
3- She denied to attack once again right after Battle of Dazar’alor when we had the chance to destroy a big part of Horde forces. Let me share her brilliant lines here.
Halford Wyrmbane says: More than half the Zandalari vessels were destroyed in the initial strike, and the Horde fleet is in disarray. Their remaining ships cannot hope to stand against the Kul Tiran navy. Genn Greymane says: The Horde has never been more vulnerable. We should strike hard… before Sylvanas hatches another vile scheme. Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: Press the attack as the Zandalari mourn their fallen king? That would make us no better than the Banshee.
Once again… she saved Horde forces here even though he was warned by Genn Greymane because he knows. Then you know what happens, Sylvanas finds enough time to make a deal with Azshara sets up a trap for Alliance navy and Alliance loses its mariner forces and crew in Nazjatar. Jaina serves well once again to the faction she belongs.
I can add something more but I don’t want this post to look like a novel.
You have a great Theory there. However There are some Plotholes.
She did blame herself for her fathers death. But only because she sacrificed him in the interest of peace. There was a deal with the Orcs and her father broke it. During the story line she mostly blames her father for not listening to what she had to say. She also blames her self for not trying harder to convince her father not to betray the Orc’s.
She was kinda buisy defending and repairing dalaran after a massive attack that caused hundreds to die. The second problem with your theory is that, yes in the eyes of the alliance The horde betrayed them, but The Horde didnt. they where overrun. Varyan should have called off the attack right then and there, i dont remember if he did or tried to push futher without the horrde. Varyan sacrificed himself, a foolish sacrifice, to save his troops and his friends.
You have a point there. However both the Horde and The alliance respect honor, Sylvanas did not. Even jaina knows that the Zandalari would not attack again after such a tragic event. It is true that i believe the just victory over the Zandalari wasnt properly executed and that is was more of a Phyrric victory then anything else. But i was a victory.
Besides in the long run it didnt matter. A few months after Dazar’Alor was sacked the Alliance stood infront of the gates of Orgrimmar yet again with an army unbroken, supported by only a handfull of Horde Rebbels.
I like your Theory but i dont think she works for the orcs, Especially after what happend in Theramore. And the Massacre she inflicted upon the horde after its destruction.
1 her father was out of line.
2 she did 1st legion invasion when noone helped her except horde and ne.
3 it’s not honorable thing. Some wow old infamous guild killed wow players during funeral - just Google it. Are you one of those guy?
Maybe I share a different and see she did more than ever this expansion in terms of story-line, both for herself and the alliance.
But this,
was hands down the dumbest line.
she was lead on the whole attack, but then its : no i kinda feel bad we nuked the city and their people and killed the king.
Which means she is a stupid character. She is stupid enough to betray the man who raised her and protected her for a long time in order to save some Zugzug invaders from another planet. Daelin Proudmoore was right because the same orc took part in invasion and genocide of Night Elves in BfA…
As far as I know Zugzugs have a battlecry like " Victory or Death" I don’t remember it like “Victory or Run and never look behind while running” . It was a betrayal and it was Sylvanas’ plan, treacherous Banshee intentionally whiffled the horn and honourable Zugzugs gladly left Alliance behind.
This was after Burning of Teldrassil right? This makes what Jaina said 4 times more stupid.
He was right about not trusting the Horde, they were alien invaders who came Azeroth recently from another planet, hence they were not so different from Legion image wise.
To be honest, it was a stupid thing not honourable and yea I am one of those guys… Additionaly if something like that was done for my own game funeral I would be glad that it wasn’t a boring one.
I googled her and I know what you mean now.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: Press the attack as the Zandalari mourn their fallen king?
Yea, I suspect if Jaina is bipolar or something when I see such contradictions on her words and actions. This is Anduin level stupidity.
Jaina’s Da was hell bent on bloodshed while Thrall wanted to build a home for his people. Daelin was ready to commit genocide against all the Orcs, two wrongs don’t make a right. So the man, the myth, the legend, Rexxar and his forces had no choice that Daelin had to die. Aye, Jaina clearly blames herself for it because she couldn’t change his ways of death and destruction.
Kul Tiras called out for vengance but the rest of the Alliance were like “Nah fam, tis over. Done with.” The plague was more important and no one really had any pity for the actions of Daelin as they were his own fault and his death was pretty much his own fault.
So Jaina can’t be blamed for her Da’s death purely. He had it coming. He let hatred consume him and Jaina tried to save him from himself but alas she couldn’t.
Gotta say on the Legion thing - Horde gets overran by the enemy, it happens. Flee and fight another day or die. Rest in Peace Sweet Prince Vol’jin, we miss you.
I wouldn’t call her Horde agent when in Cataclysm Theranore was on offensive strike for 2 years, reaching Mulgore, Valley of trials, and even threathening Echo Isles.
She also mde a small purge in Dalar and to this day we hear the echo of belf drama.
as for attack on Zuldazar - I don’t think they would succeed in it considering that they fled because they couldn’t face entire Zandalari military at once in their own seat of power. Jaina barely got out alive from there. So I think it was bluff.
As for Daelin, he was wrong at the time, not only he assaulted Darkspears unprovoked but Horde actually did help in many events like defence of Hyjal. He cutting down trees to make land even harsher to live and forcing orcs to starvation was deffinietly short sighted vision.
It turns out her Daddy was right because Alliance, the faction Jaina belongs (apparently but not really) went through a genocide recently because of the faction Thrall founded. She is not only guilty of her dads death she is also guilty for the Night Elf deaths in Teldrassil now.
She is low quality character who chose to help Green Aliens instead of her father, this is what matters. Daelin was trying to protect his kind and his people by annihilating aliens. Hence she is the one to blame in my opinion.
That is another proof of how untrustworthy the Horde is and we are gonna try to make peace again because of Jaina and Anduin, aka 2 stupid Alliance characters.
She was the one responsible for the massacre in Theramore in the first place, her small fake purge was useless.
All she had to do was sitting at home, Alliance army could’ve take care of it. Genn can be impulsive but not stupid, he wouldn’t try to suicide before killing Sylvanas.
I understand Daelin actually, orcs were a bunch of malefic refugees, would you want to share your country’s resources with some foreign refugees? I personally don’t when their numbers are extremely high so I can relate with Daelin. If orcs didn’t wanna starve then they had to find another planet to live on or die.
Untrustworthy? Because they didn’t all die at the shore? They did blow the Horn for retreat. It should’ve been the signal for Alliance to also pull back because something bad happened. Vol’Jin has fallen that day and entire Horde leadership was at risk of dying too. It was necessary move , but My ideal scenario was to make Varian die and Vol’Jin survive, and use Varian’s death as excuse to make Alliance agressive toward Horde and be the ones who attack first on every front. It would give the Horde purpose to fight back and actually create morally grey story instead of polarising two factions even more.
But was Thrall’s Horde on the same level as The Banshee? No. Thrall, my boy, was about bringin back the Orcish way of life before their corruption and to settle peacefully.
If Horde were so reluctant to run away within the first set back then they shouldn’t have come to help so that Alliance would make a new plan instead of putting their trust in wrong people and maybe they wouldn’t lose Varian.
About the alive Vol’jin stuff, yea that scenario looks better than what we got in Legion.
There is a saying " The best Horde is a dead Horde", it doesn’t matter who leads them, since their arrival Azeroth never saw peace.
Never, like Anduin and Baine, her Golden-Fu is too strong…
That isn’t what happened though. She brokered a peace, and urged her father to keep it. Her father broke the peace and attacked first, getting himself killed in the process. She didn’t force him to declare war, so she did not cause her own father’s death. It’s a Garrosh thing “No, you made your -own- destiny”
That is -weird- because she was there at the start, before the Alliance cowardly betrayed the coalition by allowing Gul’dan to monologue and summon more and more powerful demons, leaving the Horde to be cut to ribbons on the high ground until they had to withdraw. If the Alliance had done its bit as promised, that war could have been over. (See how it is easy to cherry pick which view you take of it?) She should, and could have teleported Varian away even -against his will-, we know this from the sadly removed attack on Undercity scenario post-Wrathgate.
Of course we know the real reason is that powerful magic works except when it doesn’t because of narrative necessity.
Now you’re just being ridiculous. Anduin is Horde is he?. ‘you know’ No, no we don’t know, because he isn’t. Also where was the cinematic or in game dialogue showing that he actually enjoyed the burning of the Night Elves? I’ve tried searching, but can’t find it anywhere…Well, that is a slight fib, I didn’t need to search, as everyone knows that is simply not true.
Also, an Armistice and Peace are in fact two very different things. An Armistice may be the precursor to Peace, but it is not Peace. During an Armistice both states are still ‘At War’ however both agree to stop the actual fighting, until (and if) heads of states can turn it into a Peace. Armistice can last for decades, heck, technically the USA and British Commonwealth and South Korea were still at war with North Korea for decades after the bullets stopped flying.
Because he knew he wasn’t in a place to demand them, and they weren’t in a place to repay them. Know what happens when the Victor’s punish the Vanquished too harshly? Look up the Treaty of Versailles, then 1930’s German Politics, then World War II. People made to feel weak will look for a Strongman to build them up, as history shows with tragic results.
Anduin is acting with meta knowledge as to what could happen. Of course he is, he is written by people in the 21st century who have the stark lessons of the 20th as common memory…
As to Dazar’Alor, there you see the three faces of opinions of War. Halford Wyrmbane is sensible. “We can smash their fleet!” A sensible idea, maximum damage for minimum Alliance Losses, you can tell he is an experienced military commander.
Genn Greymane shows the more impetuous nature of Warfare. Its a grudge with him (And heck, so it should be, he is one of the most ‘human’ characters in the game) He wants Sylvanas dead, that is primary to him. He is thinking passionately, led by his righteous desire for vengeance for Liam. Problem is, trying to go -back- into Dazar’Alor at that time would cause hideous losses. First time? the Zandalari were caught unexpectedly, try it again when they can -see- your ships are still there? When the populace is seething with rage at the murder of their King, a street by street fight, this time contested all the more fiercely, by a guerrilla population who know their city well, and you don’t? I’ll just say “Stalingrad” and leave it at that. Also, does anyone seriously think that Sylvanas Windrunner, an ex-Farstrider, does not know how to just mount a flying beast and make her escape if things look wrong?
Jaina shows the pragmatic approach, and the one that ultimately led to the best results. Warfare is getting the “maximum amount of milk, for the minimum amount of moo” (I’ll be amazed if any non-Brit gets that quote)
Basically War is the use of controlled force, to make an enemy state comply with your wishes. Wars of Conquest are different, but even then, the aim is not the utter destruction of every person in the enemy nation. War of Annihilation is different. That is what the Alliance would have been doing. We have a name for that. Genocide. Jaina is absolutely right. To have went back in there against an angry population, would have meant putting every man woman and child to the sword, it literally would have been making them no better than Sylvanas (Who by now we know is bat-guano crazy).
Basically what do you do, Kick a wasps nest hard, and leave, leaving the wasps confused, angry, but with nothing to vent their anger on, either way, ineffectual as they try to rebuild? Kick a Wasps nest hard, and then just stand there and give those angry wasps a big old piñata to sting?
Jaina was clever, Halford was clever too, in a different way, Genn not so much, but I can forgive that magnificent old grouch a lot, he has -reason-.
No, if she didn’t interfere and actually stop the the incoming help with frost magic Rastakhan would still be alive. It’s a Tragedy that Talanji was late by a matter of seconds to actually save him, and only had a chance to listen to his dying words.
without Jaina, that assault would be a suicide. Alliance was having serious issues to break through the watch guard which was left behind and fled when the main army returned. And for a good reason, they wouldn’t survive if they stayed.
I’m not saying he is a bad character, because as you said his reasoning regarding orcs is understandable and the best villans are those who are in a way relatable. But that doesn’t mean that from meta point of view he was right. Horde had it’s good purposes in the end, and he also attacked a faction which only sought refuge on uncharted southern islands - the Darkspears.
His hostile approach to people who settled there much sooner was the reason why they joined the Horde the moment they met Thrall.
Yeah that entire raid was nothing more then alliance forces being trown to there death.
And yet they didnt have the forces to spare to help reclaim darkshore.
Lets just add that to the list of why anduin shoudnt command a militery shall we?
