If we dont get Holy power with judgement it will be very bad. It will affect so much gameplay and i can guarateed it will ruin Protection paladin gameplay. Make Hammer of Wrath Cost no Holy power. im very sad this is happening.
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I beg you Blizz remove Holy Power from Hpala. I have mained Holy Paladin since TBC. Now as a Holy Paladin we need to deal damage too. Sic! If i would like to DPS and heal i would have picked Disc Priest. Now on top of that you give us Holy Power. What’s next? I will be forced to heal by dealing damage only? As a holy Paladin? Come on. I picked a HEALER because i love to HEAL not to deal damage. And i like to heal FREELY as long as mana allows me to do so. Don’t take my healing FREEDOM from me. Please!
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The most popular set up for holy paladin incorporates damage. You, yourself are spec’d into crusaders might. Are you genuinely not using crusaders strike for holy shock cd reduction. Seems like a waste of a talent if not?
With how holy pala has been playing for a long time, doing damage while healing isn’t going to change with or without holy power.
You can still heal without doing damage.
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That’s kinda gimped in Shadowlands, considering our only HP generators are Crusader Strike and Holy Shock lmao. Not that I mind having to do some dps but honestly generating HP feels so incredibly bad on beta right now.
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I was only pointing out the issue with what the poster I replied to was saying.
They can heal without dps in SL just like they can now if thats what they prefer.
I dont disagree with judgement giving HP.
I’m more interested in the fact that he commented after 28 days of inactivity. That’s very close to violating forum guidelines
In terms of holy power we had it once before it was fine. It will be fine again holy is holy and give it a tier and there will be some shinangens build completely unlike anything we’ve ever played before. Legion it was aura of sacrifice. Glimmer in battle. Honestly I can’t wait to see what the shadowlands iteration will be.
Honestly speaking as a cutting edge holy paladin I’m really not worried about shadowlands
If you want to play a healer that doesn’t need to deal damage restoration druid restoration shaman holy priest and to an extent mistweaver monk are all waiting for you. There are many of us who enjoy the fast-paced dynamic playstyle that is unique to the holy paladin. That we just can’t get on other classes. It would be a shame to sacrifice that in order to return to what is essentially a holy priest reskin
Now that said I will take my hat off and say that your points are valid. It dose suck to have dmging abilities as part of your core rotation and it dose suck to need to be in melee and it dose suck to have a proximity based mastery. But these are still the core of the class. And side bar I am really happy to see someone who has actually played the spec criticise it. So many of the paladins on this forum complain about holy and then you check their profile and they have done 3 dungeons all expansion and compaline it’s bad in dungeons. It they run lfr and complain it is bad in raids
But shadowlands will be the third expansion with this gameplay. If you don’t like it now then you won’t like it In 6 months. Don’t force yourself to play something you are not enjoying. Blizzard have shown no sign of changing it and in responce to posts just like your have emphases that paladins are treated as melee when healing. That is why they have plate and can use shields (blizzards words not mine) and if anything they show signs of doubling down on that gameplay not relaxing jt
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They only recently made it part of “the core”. For the duration of 12YEARS before that, it was completely different
it’s a reason why people who played holy for the better part of a decade complain on the forums without playing a spec that to them, blizzard butchered. Because they hate the current iteration, and want their spec back.
You’re completely right, like with everything they changed(read destroyed if you liked paladin up to and\or including wod) to paladins in legion. they’ve decided to double down on the terrible parts and leave out the few good ones that came with it.
Much like they’ve done with the clunky disasters, Prot and Ret.
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This is where we disagree. The things you consider to be terrible. Are the very things that people who play paladin at a higher level right now apsolutely love about the spec. (This who don’t like it have re rolled)
The play style is very unique amongst healer and allow us to play very offensively should we choose to. Now you might say well then play disc. The difference is discaplin needs to plan all of its healing very carefully which in harder content often means failing several times just to understand the dmg pattern of a pull (this makes them espically unviable in m+) where as the paladin can just switch on the dmg and healing and slow push the boundaries In a safe and fun way often without compromising on the healing too much. And I think if we were to loose that we would loose the thing that makes our class special. The thing we can do that no one else can
To remove that ability feels very much like throwing the baby out with the bath water
However I would just add one thing and I think this is a really important point that people often overlook. Unless you were playing at the top end now I’m talking to people who are doing higher than 20s and people who are trying to push top 1000 cutting edge. Then your damage as a healer is not important. I killed nzoth the other day with a holy priest and a resto druid neither of whom are optimal for the fight and neither do very much damage. Now if this was 4 months ago we would have died due to lack of damage and it would have been very important to take healers that DPS. The point I’m getting at is that unless you’re at the bleeding edge of content you can get away without dpsing. Does this mean you’re going to be sub optimal. Yes. Because you are effectively playing a healer who is designed 2 DPS as you would play a holy priest. But that’s not necessarily a problem. Non meta builds do exist and they will work for a mythic clear or a Weekly 15 as long as they have gear. Players often make the mistake of looking at what the bleeding edge do do and thinking that’s how they have to play as well. Realistically if we were sat in wrath of the lich King right now and there was some crazy awesome Melee paladin build. You probably wouldn’t even find out about it until long after the raids were cleared. Because people used to keep that sort of information secret
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I think we can both agree that retribution is a disaster. Protection of the other hand is the broken stuff I have ever seen. When i last used to push high keys which was about 4 months ago I used to run with a protection paladin and literally beacon plus glimmer and I could ignore him and just DPS. To this day I have no idea how he did it. But he just did not take any damage
Holy Paladin is one of the few classes where I like multiple iterations of the class. I do have to say Holy Power was probably my least favorite, but looking at the values of WoG I think I can be ok with accepting it. It is a real shame where LoD is with tuning in SL, however LoD was slightly forgotten in this last pat anyways.
In all honesty. I personally would prefer that we didn’t have holy power. My worry is that with so much of our healing already locked behind cooldowns if more of it is locked behind spenders then I’m concerned we might end up with very spiked healing rather than a consistent flow of HPS.
It’s going to be different for sure. It’s going to be interesting to see how holy power plays out in m plus. But everything I’ve seen so far makes me think it’s going to be fine. Not excellent not by any means but it will be fine
There are advantages shield of the righteous let’s us do some nice aoe outside of consecrate and glimmer.
Being able to spam light of Dawn means we might see more traits like Awakening getting some gameplay. Sidebar Awakening is probably the reason why light of Dawn doesn’t hit very hard. Very easily imagine a scenario where if light of dawn was relatively strong spamming it all day to get wings procs
Personally I feel like auras are in a bad place. The way they currently stand you would be mad not use aura mastery with devotion aura outside of very niche scenarios. I understand they want to keep everything class wide but I feel like there should be some more options for aura mastery. Because right now I don’t really understand the point of giving the player of choice of which aura to empower. When in most scenarios there is only one possible choice
With blizzard’s current mindset on class desing, I wouldn’t be suprised if they also forced all remaining healers to deal DPS for optimal healing, eventually.So the Resto sham or druids are not safe either.
So, don’t count on what you said.
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True but personally I would bet holy priest will always remain an out and out healer
Also as a bit t of an update since writing my original post I’ve had access to the beta and been able to really test out holy power. And I gotta say I’m really pleased with it. The paladins through put is much more consistent. Each of our cool downs feel impactful. I can now burn Mana for decent healing If I need too. Both wog and lod feel really good to heal and divine toll is incredibly op
Also the paladin is reward for mob sniping with hammer of wrath though additional cheep holy power generation which adds a nice skill cap for dungeons
Maybe allow Holy shock to generate holy power imagine the builds.
It dose generate holy power ?
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It does then lower it’s cd so it can be used as often as judgment?
i dont understand, it has a lower cd than judgement? even less if you run CM or SW
for reference i logged into the beta on my level 60 holy paladin
judgement cd = 11 seconds after haste and holy shock Cd = 8.3 seconds after haste
I don’t play holy so.
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