And yet everything you say here about how it shouldn’t be the case that a class is “good for pve” means they are allowed to suck in PvP, or have a strong spec otherwise, is routinely used to wail on havoc DH atm in PvP.
Worse, Havoc DHs case is referred to from how good they were, not are. Havoc is middle of the pack in PvE (if that) and pretty woeful in PvP, yet this is apparently “fine” because vengeance is great in PvE and Havoc used to be decent in general. Sorry what?
How can it be the case that it’s not right that a DK spec should be weak in PvP because they have other current working specs, or a stellar current pve performance, yet it’s okay that havoc is trashy in PvP because they have a working completely different spec in PvE, and used to be good in PvP? Anyone wanna explain this to me?
Same for rogues as well. Outlaw is beyond trash in PvP, yet the go to answer is “yeah cause you reroll sub duhhhh” which is just accepted. Yet apparently “reroll frost/blood” is not acceptable here.
Why the double standard for classes? I’m not saying you personally forward it, just what you say brings it to mind.
Yeah, but you are Gekko, The Lizard King and able to wear a Drust-forged mask, without forgetting how to make a Heroic Leap… everyone else, frequently gets ganked by more than three, while also being stomped by Mawsworn.
I do agree that dh needs to see some changes be it buffs or rework but your arguments arent really valid.
DK: the whole class is under represented both in 2v2 and 3v3 (2200+) it isnt only unholy that sucks its the whole class
rogue: classes with multiple dps specs should allow the players who know how to play all of them shine. I do agree that the gap atm between the specs i a bit too much but i think its a valid argument in case of rogue and warrior to tell ppl to respec to sub and arms but the other specs shouldnt be unplayable but atleast they have something that works.
also tanks in pvp are a big meme apart from holy i mean prot pala.
The point is I wasn’t forwarding it as a valid argument. I was trying to highlight how in any case such arguments are bunk.
It is irrelevant if sub is good in PvP, if someone wants to play outlaw, reroll sub is not a fix. It doesn’t magically become a valid argument because frost isn’t that much better than unholy, or because DKs are underrepresented in general.
Either telling people to reroll for any advantage is valid, or it isn’t.
In havocs case I’d argue it’s worse than DK. We have one DPS spec, and a tank spec. We do not have a backup option we can defer to. It is a legitimate joke that I am having to play vengeance in PvP because even in arena it seems to offer more than havoc does by virtue of being less squishy and it’s damage being non telegraphed. Havoc has pretty much no damage outside of easily telegraphed setup abilities (EB, Hunt) and if these are stopped, all we have is Glaive Tempest on a 18 sec cd and then chaos strikes for 1.4k. I mean what on earth is that?
Throw in huge nerfs to our sustain and defensives and we pretty much have kiting as our last big hurrah, otherwise it’s relying on an opponent being hard CCed so we can actually use a damage ability without risk of them stopping it. Vengeance at least offers decent zoning potential, sustain, more CCs and it’s sustain damage (in most cases, due to non morons usually knowing it’s eye beam and hunt they need to stop) is comparable to Havoc. That is completely wrong. But what choice do I have?
I don’t have another DPS spec I can play to squeeze out 10% extra performance, even if only that.
If someone wants to play a certain spec in PvP, it should be workable. Strong or weak is different, but it should be workable so they can perform moderately. It doesn’t matter whether they have other good specs, or specs that are slightly better, that doesn’t change fundemental problems with the spec. It just sidesteps the problem.
Rerolling frost doesn’t fix unholy.
Rerolling sub doesn’t fix outlaw.
None of them are therefore in my opinion legitimate arguments to bring in a thread regarding issues with a spec. It’s like having an issue with your car, and the mechanic tells you to buy a bike. That does nothing to resolve the issues with your car.
I addressed this and said the specs shouldnt be unplayable.
I also agreed that dh needs to see something change. I dont get the dh hate going around forums and i do think its pretty stupid that some dhs now fake cast hunt to bait defensives bcus its the only thing in their toolkit that is somewhat dangerous and its covenant ability not something you get with the class.
and you said:
Same for rogues as well. Outlaw is beyond trash in PvP, yet the go to answer is “yeah cause you reroll sub duhhhh” which is just accepted. Yet apparently “reroll frost/blood” is not acceptable here.
so i just replied to it saying the whole class is trash and tanks are meme (not prot pala tho)
There is long way to go for class balance but the focus should be on the classes that have 0 viable specs for given role for example havoc/dk/mw. once we start to see balance between the classes we can start to ask balance between specs.
Its pretty stupid to ask for balance between 36 specs when they cant balance 12 classes gotta start somewhere and progress from that.
I dont say that. I say all classes should have viable options in both pve and pvp.
Arms is broken in arena, but for me that does not justify that warrior have no viable dps option for raid/m+.
True. And its the same thing with dk. People still refer to wotlk-dk being op, and they still refer to dks stronger periods in recent expansions to justify that dk is weak af in pvp now.
The truth about this is fotm-rerollers and fotm-players in general wanting to keep other specs down, they want to remain on the throne and having an easy time doing it.
Because dk have no viable specs for pvp. We are talking about pvp, not pve, pve is not relevant here at all. It does not help pvp-only-players that a spec is strong in pve.
We are talking weak in pvp as in some specs are represented 10+ as much as you, and most specs 5+ as much as you. I know this goes for dh in pvp aswell, and ive said many times on this forum thats just as unfair.
And why do you think that is? An outlaw/assassination have a very viable option in sub.
If frost/blood were viable options for pvp it would be ok. Problem is they are not, dk as a class in general is trash in pvp.
Again. No. I talk about dk as a class in pvp in general, not unholy explicit, i would be fine speccing to frost if frost actually were viable in pvp.
Dk as a class is unviable in pvp at the moment. That is the problem.
PVE content is for people that are scared to face real challenges.
You brag who killed bigger dragon, out there in m+/raid meanwhile addons are telling you what to do.
I will never understand scared personalities who are avoiding real competition, instead fighting an AI which is only cool in non-online rpgs with story modes.
From what I remember you are the one clicking that you are incapable of playing if you don’t have a 1 button macro becouse running close to a pillar is too stressful for yours snail sized brains.
Immagine using keybinds, you will fatfinger alt+f4 10/10
Stop hiding urself boi, show us ur greatest dragon npc kill
Ur trash and u know it, ur better off playing pet battles, maybe there is an addon telling u how to pet battle too so go ahead and abandon the forums ur just going deeper and deeper with embarrassments
Now ur going at me because I play DH ? I am not rolling a class just because its bad at the moment lmao, only TRASH people do it, like you, I am still getting my pvp rankz as soon as I get home from vacay, no biggie. Meanwhile ur still hiding ur tiny something something between ur legs mr.private stats
“Shuwufskill” dont even say a word about my nickname, I guess u named that char out of happiness after killing a first pack of mobs in LFR by hitting ur keyboard with ur face
so go ahead and abandon the forums ur just going deeper and deeper with embarrassments 