Kaldorei and Forsaken cities

Lore Story
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Question raised in other thread, but I decided to create a separated thread for that. So the question is about where will Forsakens and Night Elves will live now, after the war is over? What do they still have?

For Night Elves:
During the War of the Thorns, Night Elves have lost Teldrassil, Lordanel, Dalanaar and Astranaar. What cities do they still have?
Beside different villages in Ashenvale and other locations, they still have a city in Felwood, Feralas, Valshara. Also they have a big city (their former capital city) in the Moonglade.

Which cities could be restored, or rebuild?

After the War, Tyrande told that she will take her people to Nordrassil. But that is pretty strange, because there was not cities there. Only a couple of war camps. Also during the War of the Thorns, in the book, Saurfang was planing to siege also Exodar and Nordrassil after Teldrassil.
So, does that means Night Elves have some cities there, that are not shown in game? Night Elves did manage to build Darnassus in ~ 4 Azeroth years. They build cities pretty fastā€¦

For Teldrassil, Blizzard already told that its lost for ever. For Lordanel, its full of blight, so its also lost. Auberdine got some new structures, could it be restored?
Also could that war base that we had on Warfront become a new city?

Also what about Astranaar? During the book, people of that city were evacuated. In game Delaryn told, that some people manage to run in to the forest and are hiding there. In other words people of that city are alive, and the city it self is not destroyedā€¦

For Forsakens:
During the BfA, they have lost Brill, and Lordaeron. Probably also that new city in the Arathi Highlands border. Its pretty strange that Fosakens were evacuated from Undercity to Orgrimmar, while they still have a city in Silverpine Forest, Andorhal, and Hilsbrad. Just like Night Elves were evacuated to Stormwind, while Nordrassil or Exodar were much closerā€¦

After the war they will probably return to their lands. We already had one secret meeting with Derek and Calia there. But where they will really go to make their main base?

In one interview Blizzard told once, that the story of Lordaeron is not over (please somebody help me find full interview ~2 years old). Also we know that Jaina could freeze the blight. Maybe it will be possible to remove the blight?

If yes, than in that case it will be possible also to fix Ghilneas and Lordanel. I also remember that druids were restoring lands in Plaguelands. Also during the battle on the Darkshores Warfront Malfurion is screaming that the Nature is cleared. Maybe druids also know how to remove the blight?
In fact we know that blight was removed at the WrathGates, by Alexstrasza flame. While Alexstrasza is a nature keeper, and her flame is a ā€œnatureā€ flameā€¦

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Oh look. Another thread full of nightelf self pity. How new and refreshing.

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Actually OP tried to find a subject to talk about, no need to be mean.

On topic:

While in Hyjal there is no new city you need to remember that Ragnaros was successfully stopped and the lower levels which are for now covered in Ash and twilight hammer cultist could be lorewise revitalized. There is ALOT of space there to set a new city. Itā€™s also a very safe location because they would be on top of the mountain and itā€™s much harder to assault a city located on mountain.

So I think Hyjal is very valid place, but what I also think would be neat - it should be at first phased content. That they are not getting a full city yet, but gate it behind dailies or something where players contribute and as expansion goes the city is finally built. It would be very meaningful content, and I think it would give a sense of pride that something was built from scratch through amount of effort and common cooperation.

I was chatting with other troll fans how we would deal with Zulā€™Drak and the same concept was made, ( we start from top and through patches reconquer the rest of the city and unlock various stuff time by time). It would be meaningful and earned.

With undead - I donā€™t know where to locate them yet, since half of their zone is plagued and filled with mindless skeletons roaming around.

Some people sugested it should be ruins of Theramore, but there is a danger one perticular mage would go bonkers over it.

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It is rather obvious that the massive loss of Teldrassil and everything good nightelf culture stands for was lost. Cā€™mon now.

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Teldrassil is younger than Anduin, let that sink in. Itā€™s deffinietly NOT a beacon of their culture, it was a capitol and a starting zone which people grew attached, I also liked that tree even if I failed to level nelf to max level. but taking vials to moonwells and their forests were pleasant to stroll by so I really get it.

But there is still a room for them to grow, and get some nice content. And I think Hyjal would be best location for new hub.

Not only strategically itā€™s good move, but also theyā€™ll be close to Wild gods, if Hyjal would be assaulted those lazy bastards would have to finally move their behinds to do something about it.

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Yepā€¦These forum warrior nelfs think they are special for some reasonā€¦

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Iā€™d like Orgrimmar updated to be honest. I think itā€™s about time to do something abut Garroshā€™s influence there.
Also, Goblins had to surrender a lot of room to make place for the embassy and the Forsaken. Trolls have a huge spot while they still have Senā€™jin village and now we also have Dazarā€™alor. Tauren also have a significant spot even though Thunderbluff is still ok, and we got Highmountain place as well.
Those 2 allied groups could get ā€˜officesā€™ at/near the embassy, and give room to the Forsaken and Goblins who actually donā€™t have any kind of homeland to return to.
With regard to Silverpine, I feel this is very much outdated and could become contested territory. Silverpine questing currently can be seen as basically Forsaken heritage, it could be confined into a scenario for people interested in Forsaken lore instead.

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Iā€™m renaming Story into the official Undead & Elf discussion forum.

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Iā€™d quite like something representing the older Night Elf style of architecture, in fact no, I tell you exactly what I would like: For the Kaldorei to pretty much ā€˜getā€™ Valā€™shara as the Horde have pretty much ā€˜gotā€™ Highmountain.

Black Rook Hold. An updated and expanded Black Rook Hold as the Kaldorei new city. It has a lot of historical importance to them, and the architecture is just fantastic. It would balance things out, so that the Alliance have a presence on the Broken Isles, moreover a -core- race, not an Allied One. (Remember, Horde donā€™t actually get Suramar, they get one tiny instance with no rooms or furniture that is smaller than Telogrus) but in Lore they obviously hold the entire City of Suramar.

Why not have an Instance, similar to what has been done in quite a few places now, where a Bronze Dragon can take you back to Legion questing Valā€™shara, but also to a revitalised Valā€™shara Post-Legion, with Black Rook Hold as an expanded new city for the Night Elves.

Iā€™d love to see thatā€¦

Huh, fun fact, when reading up on it, it is called Black Rook for two reasons, firstly because of Lord Ravencrestā€™s heraldry of a Raven, and secondly because it is carved out of black rock of the mountain and looks like the Chess piece of a ā€˜Rookā€™. Both factors contributed to give it its name.

Didnā€™t know that. I mean we saw the Karazhan chess game, but it seems that normal Chess the way we play it in our world is also a thing in WoW.

As for the Forsaken, I can see Andorhal working. I never understood why they lived in the sewers of Lordaeron City and not the actual City itself, which was all intact and habitable! I mean it isnā€™t like Forsaken need to hide underground, theyā€™re not bleedinā€™ Vampires, Andorhal could work nicely yeah, Or even, (as its likely been cleared out now) a repaired Durnholde Keep.

In fact Durnhold could be better for them.

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Khmm its actually interesting question, what happened to them after the Legion? We know that the curse is removed and they are free. But what will they do with their freedom?
For example Azsuna Elves ghosts are now holding a portal in Stormwind. In other words they did not just disappeared. But what about Black Rook Hold ghosts?

Valshara in overall is interesting location. I has strong big city. It has a broken Temple of the Elune. It has Druids big tree. It even has Worgens village.
The only bad thing is that its not on Kalimdoreā€¦

That will be actually a pretty nice work. Finally we will do some local quest, and will actually see the results of those quests!

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No, it was already the best improvement the city could get back in Cata.

Donā€™t make Orgrimmar to a place for refugees like Stormwind. Give them their own cities but donā€™t pollute the cities of other races please.

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I still find this such anoying bullshizzle.

I mean, Blizzard has the technology to make Highmountain and Suramar friendly to the Horde/hostile to the Alliance after certain criteria are met through phasing, why donā€™t they use that to the max? Just put a neutral Vendor/Emissary/Quartermaster somewhere off to the side of the zone for Alliance players and let the Horde enjoy their shiny new capital cities.

Huh, really? I myself was always more fond of Alterac as a new Forsaken capital city. I mean itā€™s smack in the center of Lordaeron, itā€™s cold so they probably donā€™t detoriate as fast, itā€™s close to their Horde allies (the Frostwolves), itā€™s defensible (surrounded by mountains) and they can easily move north and south through the Alteraci Pass.

Edgy aesthetics, why live in the actual city and set up defenses there when you can squat in the expanded sewers. Optimal wouldā€™ve been them living in both the expended sewers and the actual city, imagine Sylvanasā€™ sitting on Terenas Throne? The outrage on the forums wouldā€™ve fed me for years.

Yā€¦ you do know the goblins have a sizeable city just to the north of Orgrimmar right? A city that is used as the home port of the Horde navy! Itā€™s more then the worgen, Darkspear trolls, gnomes, forsaken, and night elves have currently anyway.

I quite like Orgrimmar as it is too, what I do not like is that they still havenā€™t finished the construction jobs and there still being old mud/stone buildings. Also they should update Bilgewater Bay with additional Iron Horde ships and Orgrimmar with Iron Horde architecture! Make Orgrimmar Great Again!

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Probably, yes. The world is supposed to be bigger than the 2-3 villages per kingdom we have in the game. The 50 or so houses that Stormwind has, couldnā€™t house the population thatā€™s funneled into the wars, the hand full of farms couldnā€™t feed them. There have to be loads of smaller settlements everywhere that donā€™t make it into the game, since the dev ressources are more limited than an authorā€™s imagination.

It doesnā€™t help that authors like Golden have in recent years tended to stick closely to the scale of the engine in their novels, thoughā€¦

Oh well, WoW worldbuilding isnā€™t great, what else is new?

But to follow up on thatā€¦ I donā€™t think Nelves and Forsaken are likely to get much more than a novel mention of their new location anytime soon. Just like the game canā€™t reflect the scale the world should really have, it canā€™t reflect everything that happens in supplementary lore sources. And we all know: Gameplay comes first.

If new cities are coming, itā€™s in the context of new gameplay content. There will never be another Exodar that is introduced just to look nice, empty of players as it is.
And even more restricting: New content is introduced based on the current expansion story, strange as it is. Asked about housing, Blizzard will say that it doesnā€™t really fit the BfA or the Shadowlands theme, so thatā€™s why that isnā€™t the time to introduce it. I expect the same thing will be true for cities. So we wouldnā€™t just need a concept for a city that has some gameplay relevance to have any hope of them introducing it in the near future, we would need to have a concept with some gameplay relevance that directly ties into the themes of the Shadowlands main plot.

I wonā€™t say that it is impossible to make some story about a new world tree connected to Ardenweald, or to have the Forsaken find a home with the cuddly Maldraxxansā€¦ but I certainly donā€™t see a scenario that seems very probable myself.

Soā€¦ I personally think the best Nelves and Forsaken can hope for is some lines in a quest or a novel, where the new living place is mentioned, without any details. ā€œThe nelven refugees have gone to Nordrassil nowā€ or ā€œThe Forsaken have started making Garroshs SoO fortress into Orgrimmars new Undercityā€. The most I could imagine would be a relocation of the refugee NPCs that are cluttering OG and SW at the moment, but I really wouldnā€™t expect that.
And as a final pessimistic note on that: As long as it isnā€™t shown ingame, Blizzard is quite free with their retcons. Itā€™s unlikely that they will feel bound by anything they put into a line of text, if they have a new ā€œcoolerā€ idea about what to do in the future.

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hyal would work realy well for the night elfs, not only would it be extreamly hard to attack, only like 1 or 2 ways in there, it is locate on top a mountain, what also would meen if the horde for any wierd reason would decide to attack, the night elfs could literaly do just fly down to origmar and bombard it, including the goblin city, and there would not realy be any chance to defend against it at all, combine that whit mountain gigants and Ancients, what could just start to throw rocks down the mountain if they so liked it.

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I had hoped that would be obvious to everyone by this point, I mean a world thatā€™s smaller then the moon housing so much races, cities and wars?

Or the Alliance taking a loss of 25k soldiers in Northrend and the next couple years capable of fighting off the Horde and whatever world ending threat there is.

Hereā€™s to hoping thereā€™ll be a timeskip in Shadowlands, though, the world and their populations deserve to be restored and replenished.

It would because it has been the center of their new nation for over 10k years, it contains two sites that are considered extremely important, if not outright holy, to the night elven people and it is the home of the majority of their Wild Gods.

(Which are lazy bums that rather see their ancient wards and their home forests be destroyed then lift a finger in defense of their own home).

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I hope that never comes, thoughā€¦ Firstly, it would certainly be a big problem for role-players, niche as we may beā€¦ But, more importantly, I really donā€™t see why restored populations would be helpful for the setting at all. A world of realms on the brink, struggling to survive and get whatever ressources they can get is a much better place for player heroes than one where everyone can comfortably send armies around. The stronger the state of the world, the stronger the threat that actually needs to employ champions to solve it has to be. And I really hate that power creep.

Iā€™d be perfectly happy if the world was run down to a state where some uppity troggs could feel like something threatening again.

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I guess weā€™ll have to agree to disagree then :wink:

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Who cares about roleplayers. The game is 15 years old already. A reboot or a bigger time skip are very much needed with the way the world has stagnated since mop at least. They did it with warcraft 3. They can do it again.

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I ā€¦ I know but I forgot when I wrote this.

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I donā€™t disagree but rebuilding takes time.
And whoā€™s to say alliance isnā€™t going to reclaim Lordaeron and whoā€™s then to say Baine wouldnā€™t dare say no to them?