Why is this STILL a thing? I’ve lost my 20 because someone dc-ed in a very nice run. Guy didn’t rage quit or left something happened with his internet/PC and now my key is lost. Why can’t I just restart my 20 key ? Who is depleting actually helping?
I know this must be post number 1000 with this complain but I don’t care.
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Sucks that happened to you, and if there were an easy fix to situations like this blizz wouldve implemented it a long time ago but there isnt cause its practically impossible for the game to know when a m+ does not deserved to be depleted cause of dcs or ragequits or whatev. People would just start abusing the system with fake dcs or fake ragequits in order to get infinte attempts at high keys.
Fun fact, depleting keys used to be way more punishing back in the day. When m+ was first introduced in legion, if you depleted your key it would not only decrease with 1 level but also get stamped as “depleted” and turn gray. The bad part about this was that completing a gray key would not give loot to anyone in the group at the end, (Cant remember if it gave m+ score). And the only way for you to turn your keystone back to normal was to finish it in time.
You can imagine what this lead to, people joining pugs only to realize that the keyholders key is gray and insta leave. Nobody wanted to do gray keys so having a depleted key was like a death sentence for making your own m+ groups for the rest of that week.
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So why can’t people bang their head against a 20 key for 100 times ? I know how it was in Legion i played then, yes it was more bad but that doesnt make a difference. Who really cares if people are “abusing” the system by restarting their key?
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Because u can still get gear from a failed run.
And if u put the idea of swappinf that so failed runs award 0 gear, group leaders would quit any key that wont 3 star
So this is just the lesser of 2 evils
Thats an interesting question. One answer i can think of is that keys the way they are designed now create the good kind of stress/pressure that makes you perform better. Without the deplete punishment i think that pressure would disappear and it would not be very fun since there would be no stakes.
Because it would be toxic as hell. People would never downgrade their keys because its not in peoples nature to admit that they are past their skillcap.
So you’ll have people that roll the easy key of the season / get a bit of a boost from being in a bad group and then end up with a key level higher than they “should” have.
Now they will bang their heads against it until they explode / find the unicorn group again or get lucky.
I don’t see how this is good design either.
And I’m asking again ? Who does that hurt ? If someone wants to waste their time in a 20 for 100 times ,who actually cares ? and why ? and btw i don’t think people would not downgrade their key manually if they think they cannot do it.But even if they won’t it’s their own time.My problem is that sometimes you waste 20+ minutes in a dungeon, everything is fine then a sudden disconnect ruins everything and then you have to waste time in a lower dungeon and hope you finish it so you can go back doing what you wanted to do in the first place.
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Every key will become that because everyone will have a too high key. It will not be fun.
Cause you forget, if you can “just restart” everyone else can do it to. And if it happens, dk will never found a group in M+
Well there would be an easy fix by making so you can always get a key 1+ of your best timed one but that would enrage the try hard community because it would change a thing that was there when m+ was implemented.
Aand people like for some reason to have to go 2 steps back instead of just stopping when they accidently cross a line.
You would end up in a cycle of everyone leaving over and over as there would be literally no downside to just dumping a run.
How is this any different to what we have now???
People que to keys, then leave. or dc, or they get hostile and angry, or they just can’t be bothered anymore. Sometimes even get so angry they quit wow reducing the player pool.
It’s all about gaining rio and climbing the ladder in M+. That’s kinda it.
The keystones are pretty much irrelevant for most players, it’s all about the dungeon itself, the difficulty and the score at the end. Then the reward of completing it and the vault unlock so then you can progress more.
I think a solution to this issue is keep M+ how it is. Just make it so that there are no longer keystone holders, the house (lfg/blizzard) is the holder. The players choose from a range of difficulties and dungeons from +2 up to whatever the best players on wow can complete. The score you earn is what determines which Keys you can join. Then if a deplete happens the downside will be you have wasted your time. That is enough of a penalty when we are all mortal being. It also takes away the gambling aspect that is forced on players in the current lfg.
It’s similar to what togasht was when you wanted to progress the torment levels. No key. All focus was on the experience and its design scaled difficulty.
We are in 2023 talking about a 2012 problem. A decade. 10 years. That’s insane and not in a good way.
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Because if it wasnt. Group leaders would continously disband the group til they found a 3* run.
Itd be pointless ever finish a run below that if u had endless restarts. Which would go on to further complaints regarding dps players waiting half hour to get into a group for it to be disbanded on repeat and nothing grtting done.
I’ll take that instead of losing my key and then relying on the looking for group for hours on end just to get declined over and over again.At least I’ll be actually playing the game not sitting afk playing queue simulator.
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The idea of always getting a key one level higher then what you already timed would solve all the issues. Or if a key would not deplete below the level you already timed.
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I have to ask you, if Blizzard implemented the following:
“Key which are not completed, either because the group has disbanded or zoned out to reset the dungeon, will no longer deplete. Keys, which are completed with rewards at the end, will function as normal, depleting if finished under over the timer.”
Would agree that this would be fair?
No.
Because as a leader, why would it be fair i could kick everyone and prevent the completion of the key everytime the dungeons going to be less then a 3 +++
Itd become meta to quite litterally disband groups based on 5 minutes of performance, and then u would really get a queue simulator.
If u implement this, u will see less then 10% of ur keys actually complete.
Do u not reliese how abusable a system alike this is?. Until you find a way to prevent this becoming a reality, then no it will never be fair.
And hint you simply cant.
But no one would join ur group in this case so no, u very much would be.
The only way under this system to ensure success is to only run your own key continously as if u join someone elses key, you run the risk of not only disbanding the run over lack of 3 +++s. But just repeatively wasting time
So everyone would only run their own keys as it becomes the strongest method forward and nobody runs each others keys, due to a pressumed waste of time when they inevitably disband the group.
Ur going to join 14 groups and possibly getting 1 dungeon completed under this concept, the entire gsme mode will implode and die.
Because nobody will trust any leaders to mot disband the groups, and nobody will wanna invest a hour to find out if their suspicions are correct.
You will do fsr more damage then good with this change. And thats why blizzards never removed it. Because no one can rationally argue a plausible method to ensure the system wasnt abusable.
You cant say “i dont care its gonna be mass abused, and inevitably damage the game mode aslong as i keep my key” as a plausible argument to push in a change. Everyone with a brain and common sense, knows that the problem ur complaining about will only get drastically worse.
It can be summarised by the idea that m+ rewards consistency and tries to keep the key in a given player’s bag as close to the level they can consistently perform at as possible whilst still offering opportunity for climbing and improvement.
You do not become a player who can consistently time a key two key levels above what you’ve previously done by two chesting one key once.
Okay, fair point. How about this:
When you get a new Key, by default it is “Completion”. When you advertise it in LFG, it will always advertise as Completion.
Your Completion keys behave exactly how all keys behave now.
You can got to the Keystone NPC, who can switch your key to “Pushing”. This will now advertise your key as Pushing and will behave as I have outlined.
Would this suffice?
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M+ system needs rework!
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