My response is pretty much there, but go ahead, play the victim.
Classic.
And now Mythic+ arenât about perfection? xD Mythic+ from definition promotes degenerate playstyle cause you expect perfection from others because in case of failure your key depletes and you waste lots of time. With no depletion you wonât be forced this much into perfection.
Happens already. I know 2750 survi hunter who gets boosted all the time, but itâs S+ class. Why people wouldnât learn? No depletion doesnât automaticaly mean your key will be pushed +1. Raid encounters doesnât throw you out of instance after wipe, you still have to do it properly.
All arguments are âdegenerate playstyleâ and nothing else. People will reset after 1 wipe? And what happens now? After 1 wipe people leave because it wonât be timed - understandable, if oneâs goal is to raise their score why they should stay? Key holder has 1 shot on this and one mistake can lead to wasting 1 hour. How is that NOT degenerate playstyle? Is such gaming experience now a standard? Punishing for smallest mistakes?
Why now should I invite out of meta spec? Even if lock/hunter/monk is dumb, their dps can carry their lack of skill so itâs safer to be meta slaves than give someone a chance because they play something out of meta.
Thatâs my point, people ask for this cause of 1% cases of abusement completely ignoring advantages. Again, people demand perfection while theyâre imperect themselves.
It is allowed backed by arguments. Jumping into threads with âidea badâ is immature. Every single time someone comes up with idea which would be great and it would solve lots of problems people INSTANTLY reply with niche case of abusement like every single player in this game is total toxic jerk. Iâve given examples how you would react to most features already implemented in game. Bad people have existed, they do exist and will exist, no matter how you change systems to counter them - they will always find a way to be jerks.
We got forced personal loot - almost never I had situation when someone demanded my item to trade it while I had countless situations when I wanted to trade my item to other player but I couldnât cause it was âilvl upgradeâ.
And there was thread to lift off the restrictions - and what? âNooooo it would be awful guild master would force you to give away itemsâ.
You canât expect things to get better while changing nothing. If one idea creates possibility of hard abusement there are always ways to soften it up.
Wake up and accept nothing is perfect.
You donât like the arguments and then call it âno argumentsâ. Grow up.
Your response can be summarised as: âI think you are lying and you already leave. You are just pretending you are not a bad person.â
Which, as I said, is not a response to my argument that people who donât otherwise leave out of consideration for the key owner would start leaving if the consequences for the key owner were less severe. Instead, you called me a liar, presumably because you canât face up to the reality that what I said is exactly what would happen.
Getting into groups a forming groups isnât instant either. People waste their own time by leaving as well and everyone with half a brain understands that a run isnât ruined when a single imperfection happens. Youâre pretending that if keys didnât deplete, people would just leave for the hell of it when a pull dies in 30 seconds instead of 20.
If youâre happy with constantly leaving and not completing a single key because you didnât like the way a run played out, then I donât think a depletion system, or lack thereof, is to blame. We can only hope that the rest of the playerbase doesnât have the reasoning ability of a disabled chimp.
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No, Iâm not. Iâm saying that people who will currently stay in a key thatâs going bad, even if they will get nothing from it, because they know how bad it feels when some pos leaves your key and they wouldnât do it to others, wonât have that reason to make them stay.
Iâm not, but thereâs also no point in wasting my time by staying to the end of a key thatâs going to be over time when Iâm going to get nothing except a few anima, and maybe an item than I can vendor. Do you understand this? When my vault is full, when I already have all the loot Iâm ever going to need from this dungeon, and when I already have it timed on the key level below, in what way do I benefit from staying? My time would be better spent finding another key to do.
It isnât my reasoning thatâs at fault here. I just find it astonishing that there are people here who donât understand that you donât recover wasted time by staying around and wasting more.
Or more likely they need to finish the key as well for whatever reason. People donât just join keys for the hell of it.
In higher keys when pushing, I donât see a reason to stay in the first place if the run is bricked. Half the time itâs the keyholder leaving anyway. If anything itâs a good thing that the keyholder can just go again without having the work they put into pushing the key negated.
And you seem to be forgetting the part that without depletion, it would feel much less bad for the keyholder in the first place as they wouldnât have to waste even more time pushing they key back up again.
So it would be the exact same pushing experience as it is now, except with less time waste for the keyholder. I really donât see how the negatives outweigh the positives here.
And I find it astonishing that there are people who would scrap an idea based on a hypothetical negative when that same idea has a major, guaranteed positive.
In case it still escapes you, a lot more time is wasted for the keyholder when the keystone is reduced by a level each time a run fails, and thatâs because of depletion.
But hey, people might leave sometimes so letâs not even entertain the thought of removing it I guess.
You donât need anything but a head and a keyboard in +2. You donât even need arms. Just bind your favourite AoE ability to every key except the space bar and bind move forwards to the space bar and then roll your head over the keyboard until the dungeon is finished.
Iâm joking of course, but seriously though, +2 is incredibly easy. It is borderline unfailable. You donât need anything, really, just a group of people who know the most basic essentials of their rotation and a willingness to run a dungeon. You need no real coordination, no pre-knowledge - nothing. Just zerg it.
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My reply can be summarised in:
âPeople do not care about other peopleâs key, time or whatever else. They stay in a dungeon or leave it simply out of personal interestâ.
Period. That is the pug life.
So I donât believe even for a slight second that people would turn into instant leaver just because the key owner does not suffer key downgrade anymore, because the majority do not care in the first place.
So yes leaver would still be leaver. And people caring for others time will still care.
I called you a liar because the people caring about strangers time turning into mass leavers with that method is a lie.
If you feel offended by it because you are part of your own convincing process that is not my problem and could not care less.
a lil bit off topic here but i just love how current tuning of survival proves all the previous topics about how people hate melee in m+ proven full of lies
the moment any melee class is doing really good in there everyone wants them
problem was never melee - problem was they werent doing as good as meta ranged :0
I guess you never tried pugging the CMs in MoP? You had like 4-6 resets in like 10-20 minutes before someone got tired of it and left. It was horrible.
People do this constant resetting on the PTR as we speak. Iâve yet to finish a m+ run on the PTR because people just reset it or leave the group if you wonât reset. ON THE PTR. I wanted to try the new affix(and dungeons) and what I get is people resetting or leaving because of not resetting and not being able to finish a run, lmao. I have absolutely no doubt that this would happen on live realms if there was no penalty to failing a key, considering my experience trying to pug CMs in MoP and what Iâve seen on the PTR.
At first i really liked the idea. In some cases itâs really good.
When your pug depletes your 15. Everyone who pugs a lot knows what a massive pain it is to get a group for a 14. Itâs to the point where if i have like a 17 and i just wanna farm gear, i lower it to 16 just to have 2 chances, in case my pug ruins it.
For high key pushing, when you only care about score this is also a nice change. It makes it so when you finally get that high key you wanted, but you mess up a tiny thing on a pull and wipe, you can go again instead of having to grind hours to get a good key again.
I think for the community as a wholethe biggest thing this would solve is how hard it is to get into 15s. Currently with the depletes it is extremely punishing to not time your 15, because no one wants to do 14s. If we remove depletes then people are more willing to give people who are just qualified for the key a chance. I myself like to give people a chance, and i have rather low standards, so even if i know i can get someone better, if itâs gonna take a while iâll settle.
The downside however is that now that you can just go again, it puts an incentive to strive for the perfect run. Did you have a few deaths with 20 min left, but there is a chance you can still time it? why bother trying when you can reset? Leading to potentially hours on the same key.
In the same theme, what if itâs gonna be out of time, but half the group needed it in time in your weekly 15-17? If youâre there for gear, but they are there for score, they donât really have an incentive to finish and would rather you go again, causing a potential standstill.
Never been anywhere close to âa massive painâ for me.
Joined this group on my shaman, trying to get the boots from it(a +14 gives the same dropped ilvl as a +15):
It had been up for like 30 seconds in the LFG at the point I joined, 2 minutes later we had a full group.
Itâs not hard. I can apply to 5 +15s and be invited to at least one within a minute.
Joining one and making one are two very different things.
You can always find a group with a healer or tank in and it will be fast, but if there are 20 14 groups and you just join the one that is not only dps, itâs not the same as starting a 14 as a dps, which is the pain.
Just did a little experiment. It is late right now, but it is tuesday so people are rushing to get their last minute weeklies done so itâs not like itâs dead.
I put up a group for 14 hoa, keep in mind hoa is one of the most sought after keys for weeklies. Within 6 minutes i had gotten 0 healers, 0 tanks and 6 dps, and the dps were not even decent most of them.
I then put up a 15 hoa for comparison. Within 30s i had 10 dps signed, most of them 2500+, and at 1 minute i had to scroll for signups, and before 2 minutes had passed i had 10+ 3k+ people and tank and healer that were both 3.6k.
The difference between getting a group for a 14 and 15 is unreal my guy.
I just tried it, put up a group â+14 gambitâ as dps.
This was within 30 seconds of putting it up⌠On alliance at 2 amâŚ
Gambit is the easiest, fastest most fun and best key though. Good key to farm valor / high ilvl gear drops.
Honestly, yeah timing a +14 even if the key sucks is easy enough. Just be patient and research every single group member. It´s just the annoying anxiety factor of not knowing if someone is going to randomly DC, someone is going to start arguing and leave for no reason. It just makes doing keys a genuine awful and uncomfortable experience.
Of course the easiest way would just to join a guild do a +15 for free and then have a +15 every week.
Still though. I really don´t see the harm in not penalizing the keyholders like this.
I do, because of what went on with the MoP CMs and whatâs going on, on the PTR right now. Iâve yet to finish a dungeon on the PTR because people just reset when something goes wrong, ON THE PTR WHERE IT DOESNâT EVEN MATTER. I can only imagine how this would go on live realms, where it matters. Complete degeneracy.
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God the reply system on these forums is so A##
You might very well be right then. Never underestimate the toxicity, laziness and selfishness of WoW players. If this is really happening on the PTR then yeah, I can imagine it happening non-stop on retail too.
Maybe I´m just too naive. Personally I´ve never left a single key in the entirety of M+.
The only run Iâve done that didnât get reset was this when I joined a group andybrew put up for trying affix/dungeons as boomkin;
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1487195722?t=3h44m25s
But that was the healer flaming and then leaving, lmao. Imagine flaming on the PTR.
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Sick behaviour
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