Kidney Shot Should not longer cost combo points

Kidney Shot has been from the very start of the game the iconic rogue stun finisher, however time has changed and the game is quite different now than it was 15 years ago. Remember that when they designed the spell back then cheapshot and kidney were on different DRs.

Talking more specifically about PvP, i strongly beleive Kidney Shot should no longer cost combo points, here is why :

Kidney Shot is your longest duration stun and as rogue’s job is to stun targets for elimination, it should feel good to press your kidney on your kill target, however since Shadowlands, this is only true for Assa and not for Outlaw or Sub.

As Assa you have the Internal Bleeding talent which not only deals signficant damage but also gives you energy back, making Kidney Shot very potent and it feels good to press.

Outlaw used to stun with Between the Eyes, which also did a lot of damage, now using Kidney Shot as outlaw feels miserable (straight up damage loss compared to 2 previous expansions with nothing to compensate)

Sub was not played at all during BFA since both it’s design and tuning was mediocre, now it became the go to spec for PvP since they removed the awful nightblade, so the design is a bit better than in BFA and people started enjoying the spec again, however i think it still has some major design flaws, one of which being, you guessed it, Kidney Shot.
Same as outlaw using kidney shot as sub is a straight damage loss, so what people ended up doing instead was to spam cheapshots on the kill target since this stun generates combo points, which allows you to use an extra eviscerate and do more damage during your burst.

I personnaly think spamming cheapshot is very unelegant and should not be the most efficient way to do a lot of damage while stunning your target.

Also, going back to a more general rogue idea (not sub specific), when engaging a target from stealth you’d much rather kidney shot them than cheapshot since it lasts longer, the current workaround is to use marked for death in order to generate combo points, virtually making Kidney Shot combo point free, and admitedly this feels really good right? But then marked for death is on a 30sec CD while kidney is 20sec so it doesnt line up perfectly, and again it is a rather unlegant way to approach the same result : Being Able to kidney regardless of current combo points.

I would also like to add that it is NEVER good to use kidney bellow maximum combo points, so why make it a finisher in the first place? Beside hindering it’s use, i don’t see the benefits, it just doesn’t feel as good as before. Back in the days you could open with a cheapshot build combo points and then kidney your target, it was arguably very OP and frustrating to play against so they ended up making both stuns on same DR, but without reworking Kidney Shot, it used to be a good follow up to cheapshot, but it isnt the case anymore!

TLDR : Make Kidney Shot Combo-Point-Free !

Actually Rogue finishers should not cost “ENERGY”. Combo point is fine. Just look monks, they use energy to gain Chi and spending Chi to powerful ability. Rogue class needing complete overhaul and it is currently the only class which is “OUTDATED” in all game forms. In before teenagers come around and “Rogues are fine”.

Rogue is dead already. Pass the retail or re-roll.

3 Likes

I can’t wait for the screaming “AAAAHHHH OP rogues want even more buffs, why not just give them a 10 second stun AAHHRHR”

Anyway, I agree with Volcano. It is more of an energy issue than a CP spender issue. I think having to consider whether or not you wanna spend your CPs on a stun or Eviscerate is rather healthy.

2 Likes

Lmao if they would make KS free of CP cost it would be hilariously OP

Literally being able to stun anyone for 6-7 seconds out of nowhere at no cost on a 20 second cooldown is way over the line.

It having a CP cost is the only way we can even justify it being as strong as it is already

3 Likes

how so, since it has a cd and shares dr wish cs/other stuns?
doesnt the fact that its single target already justify it? i mean monk stun is just as long and its aoe.

What, you mean Leg Sweep?

That lasts half as long, and has a minute cooldown.

Yes, double duration and a 20 second cooldown definitely justify it having more of a cost than a 3 second AoE stun on a minute cooldown. I wouldn’t for a second even consider trading it for that either.

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wasnt it 5 sec with 45 sec cd before? i cant even say for sure since every cc feels like forever. would be fine with a cd increase to 30 sec tho.
i just would hope they would finaly rework rogue instead of stoping it straight down as soon as it overperforms while other classes like mage overperform since release of the game.

sweep lasts longer in pvp. rare case of something that’s stronger in pvp than pve.

ot: kidney is fine as is. farm points between goes or mfd kidney or use cheap shot to start with. you’re also not energy limited during a go.

I would agree with you if all Rogue specs had “Relentless Strikes” but for other specs 5 combo + energy cost is too much. Like people said, Monks & Paladins even DK’s can do stun with only 1 Global.

For Sub spec yes it is not too much and fine. But for other specs it is expensive. As i said before, all Rogue specs should have RS or the Energy Cost on finishers should removed.

Ok fair, I did not know that. I havn’t PvPd that much yet in SL.

You still can’t even remotely compare it to our 20 sec CD 6 second stun though
If you use it well you can force a CD every single time, what other ability do people have that forces CD’s every 20 seconds? I think it’s pretty unique in that :thinking:

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removing combo points requirements would be good.

all other classes can just press button for stun, and several can aoe stun and has more stuns than rogue

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If it was no CP cost. It’s CD would go up to compensate. Wouldn’t you rather having it available every 20sec over every 1-2 min?

Absolutely.

Yeah, lets buff rogues. the S tier class since the beginning of time in competitive PvP

Didn’t I say this would happen :P?

1 Like

1-2 min it is compensation for aoe stun like shaman has, and KS has 25sec cd wich it only 5 second less than other single target stuns in the game

where you see 2 min cd on single target stun?

i’d say give the rogues new ability called…
"weaklings fate to be stunned and die" cost 100energy
(20%chance per active combo point on use to cast a blinding light, flashing enemy players screens, disabling sound, applying debuff to reduce heal revived by 100% & Bleeding all enemy for 30yard to death for 20second, each second they lose 5%hp.

the only way to survive such deadly moments is to use Luffa
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=19141/luffa

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