Leaders of the factions, present and future

Lore Story
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Alot of players seem to be unhappy with the directions and leaderships their current factions and favorite races are turning, specifically with Blizzard advertising this expansion as biggest faction war themed one of all time. I would love to hear the thoughts of yourself what you would change of the current direction your race/s are getting at(Not included the political direction, just the leaders). I start.

First Alliance.

  1. Humans: I don’t have a opinion here since whoever succeeds Anduin would keep the meme alive regardless, if Blizzard wants it bad enough.
  2. Kaldorei: Maiev. No explanation needed hopefully.
  3. Worgen: Tess please. I know everyone loves Genn but he passed his best years. Tess would be a worthy successor.
  4. Dwarfs: The current system was forced by Varian so… Muradin or Moira? Wildhammers are too wild and freedom loving to get too deep into politics. Falstad should travel back to defend the hinterlands.
  5. Gnomes: Everything is cool here. Gelbin is better than you.
  6. Draenei. With the lack of Maraad, who would even replace Velen when it’s time? Would the Hand of Argus take over?
  7. Pandaren(both sides): Not really useful for the current plot and doomed to stay in the background.

Now Horde.

  1. Orcs: Give us Thrall/Go’el back. Or Nazgrel. Anyone who isn’t Saurfang. And if the Rest of the AU WoD/outland Orcs move over, bring back Draka too while we are at it. This pick would be much easier if all of the original Chieftains wouldn’t be dead. Sad.
  2. Darkspear Trolls: Vol’jin was utterly wasted for no purpose. It’s a catfight who will take over. Rokhan? Gadrin? One of Vol’jins sons?
  3. Taurens: IdK honestly but I take anything and will sacrifice everything to get rid of Baine somehow. Please Blizzard. I beg you. makes puppy dog eyes
  4. Goblins: Look, I know many people adore Gallywix because his personification of all goblin characteristics made him become the top and most rich Trade Prince on Azeroth. But his personality gives him a big, scary raid boss marker flying above his head. So I throw my hat in, and say give Gazlowe the spot as new face of the Goblins, IF Gallywix should die. And merge Steamwheedle and Bilgewater while we are at it.
  5. Forsaken: As far as I am concerned, Sylvanas can stay. She is the Forsaken, in each meaning of it. Even her face covers the banner and symbols of them. If she would be removed somehow, make Nathanos, Voss, Faranell, Belmont or the Black Bride the new queen/King/Regent in charge. Or, if we want to use a wild card. Alexi Barov. Unlike Sylvanas he has nobility claims to Lordaeron.
  6. Sin’dorei: Usually I would say everything is fine here. One of the few Horde races with undamaged leadership. But. If it was “Make a wish!” day, I would resurrect Kael’thas in a heartbeat.

So, that’s it. Maybe tomorrow we collect some answers. Hyped for the discussion :slight_smile:

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Taurens: IdK honestly but I take anything and will sacrifice everything to get rid of Baine somehow. Please Blizzard. I beg you. makes puppy dog eyes

Only other major Tauren i can think of is Hamuul Runetotem but not sure he would make a good leader having split loyalty with the druids. I guess Gamon will have to do.

Humans: I don’t have a opinion here since whoever succeeds Anduin would keep the meme alive regardless, if Blizzard wants it bad enough.

Can think of a few good ones…first one comes to mind is Halford Wyrmbane.

<Halford opens the package and reads the analysis.>

I am by no means a scientist, <name>, so you’ll have to forgive my plebeian understanding of what has been written. Now, according to this analysis - assuming I have the brain power of at least an adolescent school boy - we still don’t know jack squat about the Scourge war machine. The only thing we do know is that the Scourge uses this foul metal to craft its siege engines, armor and weaponry.

<Halford lets loose a long sigh.>

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Laughs in Weldon Barov

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You have reached “Friendly” reputation with Coupedegrace

Humans: I like Anduin and want to see him more in future expansions, a young kid who has to get his hopes broken and learn from the disappointments in life, just cut the plot armor down.

Kaldorei - Maiev <3

Worgen - Genn is fine as a leader, he is a dude. But after Sylvanas and Gilneas I dont think he will have any actual motives.

Dwarves - couldnt care less. I love them they are great. Moira is most cunning I think as a governor.

Gnomes - someone who will help them with Gnomeregan, like seriously! Plus I hate that god forsaken Dungeon.

Draenei - Is there anyone else then Velen? One of the most important races in WoW and having no characters whatsoever.

Horde

Orcs - I want Garrosh back! Dont caare how, go back in time bring him back and guide that poor boy!

Trolls - never really digged Darkspear racial lore, so Im not very competent here. But Vol’jin story was just so confusing.

Tauren - I know I will get some judgement for saying this, but I want Baine to stay.

Goblins - Anyone but that fat, self loving, money grabbing, ugly, manipulative Ahole.

Forsaken - Sylvanas is the only one at this point that can lead them. She is way too engraved in the direction of entire race and history. If she’s gone I would only see someone continuing with Sylvanas’s ideology, like Nathanos maybe? OR the scenario n2 where entire race has to undergo a serious change, which would not only suck, but not make sense to redeem them. Never understood it, even though people are talking alot about that in these forums.

Sin’dorei - I actually really dislike Lor’themar, with his judgemental and arrogant attitude. He’s also very passive and coward.

Get someone who will let the Sin’dorei out of Sylvanas’s shadow and finally stand on their own. They have a big potential to be the strongest race in Horde.

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Humans : Turalyon and Alleria or maybe Arator
Kaldorei : Tyrande
Dwarves: Moira it’s fine. Maybe her son have a potential.
Gnomes: they are always amazing … they need a new leader
Draenei: Velen it’s the best choice. I would like to see Yrel coming back ^^
Worgen: Tess

The Horde
Forsaken: I think that Calia Menethil it’s already at this way
Orcs: Thrall
Goblins : He can be a great Raid Boss … the Goblins need someone else to lead them
Sin‘dorei: Liadrin or if there is a way to get Kael’thas from the past ^^
Tauren: I like Baine . Hug
Trolls: Talanji can do it

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I think it’s important that the main characters fit within the story, and don’t just exist to please certain fanbases.

The change of Warchief from Vol’jin to Sylvannas is not a matter of having a new Warchief to appease the Sylvannas fans, but a means of telling a story. There’s a story here that surrounds both characters, but which also ties into other plotlines.

Likewise with Anduin, Calia, and Taelia. There’s story revolving around who the characters are and what they represent, which makes them fit into their roles.

It doesn’t really make sense to just put characters into random roles just because fans would like to see them in those roles. There sort of has to be a story that takes them there and which plays into the greater narrative.

Warcraft is not about creating some happy state where everyone likes the character cast. The narrative is what matters.

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This sentence makes too much sense. And threatens to desecrate the ever repeating circle of this forum.

Alert, Alert.

Big issue here however is that the narrative isn’t very bright at the moment. I wouldn’t like to say that “Well uh, everybody says its bad so…” because that wouldn’t get us anywhere, but the standard set does not help to alleviate any problems that currently hurts it.

Not to mention the fact in that, despite the story, some of these decisions show indication of (clearly or hinting, pick your poison) being drawn from popularity rather than narration.

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Err, have you -played- Isle of Thunder or SoO? If there are two things he is not, it is passive and cowardly. I mean he leads the assault on the Thunder King’s palace from the front, even when his own people are saying he is too important and should stay further back. He’s also the only person who ever BTFO’d both Garrosh -and-Sylvanas (The former in ‘Tides of War’ the latter in the Siege of Orgrimmar.

Anyway.

Humans? Well, ‘Son of the Wolf’ shows that Anduin is there for good. He’s going nowhere until he’s as old as Genn. (I actually thought it was Genn in the comic originally, which is kind of neat given how Genn has now become a kind of surrogate father to Anduin)

Dwarves?: I’d say they’re OK as they are. I’d like to see more screen time for Muradin and Falstad, as well as Moira, but I like the Triumvirate vibe, especially as they also have a Senate. Something very Ancient Rome about it.

Gnomes? How dare they! How dare they tamper with Gelbin! He was awesome! However, if something irreparable does happen to him, I think the logical successor would be Kelsey Steelspark, the head (I think) of G.C.O. Remember, the ditzy act is just that, an act. She is actually a cold, ruthlessly efficient killing machine and commander of killers, as we see at Lostrigger Cove in Tanaris. Under her the Gnomes would actually become a lot more dark…

Draenei: Again, as with Anduin, from the same source we know that Velen survives for the next sixty years or so, so meh. He’s going nowhere. Which is good, as there is no one notable who could really replace him. Maraad would have been awesome but…well…

Night Elves: I think a closer working dynamic between Shandris and Jarod could be good. I still, even after the ‘Terror of Darkshore’ cinematic (Which was good!) have trouble taking Malfurion seriously because, well, he just looks ridiculous. I mean look at him. He looks -ridiculous-, He may be massively powerful, but he just looks like some bear/elf/beard/moose/pigeon hybrid.

Worgen: I like Genn. I’ve made it well known that I like Genn as a character, but he is an old man, he won’t last forever. I’m going out on a controversial limb here, and saying his successor, if -not- a Greymane, would be pretty neat if it was Lorna Crowley, with Darius as Seneschal. You’d have that immediate dichotomy of Non Cursed Gilnean, and Cursed Gilnean, which might actually unite the nation enough to retake their homeland. But…No Kill Genn Pls…

For the Horde, its tricky.

Orcs: Saurfang is a -possibility- depending on how BfA plays out, lets let the dust settle before we pooh pooh the idea, we could yet be surprised. The return of Thrall is also an option, and to be honest, not the most unfavourable.

Trolls: I just want Vol’jin back. Especially after reading ‘Shadows of the Horde’. Such a good character, to be thrown under the bus of Faction parity. This said, Rok’han, despite my initial scepticism is actually shaping up as a good successor.

Tauren: There isn’t anyone…They just need to fix Baine as a character. There is no Non-Neutral Tauren character who could rule the nation, as in ‘Is notable enough for the players to care’. I strongly suspect Blizzard are in the process of ‘Fixing’ Baine as part of his arrest.

Forsaken: Again, this problem, I can’t see them killing off Sylvanas. She’s become too Iconic. She’s like Jaina. You just know she’s gonna survive everything. Nathanos however, can get right in the bin. They ruined the character. There is no direct replacement however. I mean what important Forsaken are there? Yeah, that’s the point. The only Important ones have non-Forsaken models. Oops Blizz….

Sin’dorei: I like the dynamic as it is, You have this War Hero Snark Beast counselled by a very cynical Grand Magister, and a chilled Ranger General, It is strongly hinted in ‘Blood of the Highborne’ that Lor’themar and Liadrin are a ‘thing’ so there’s that link, but to be honest, the current dynamic -works-.

Goblins: I want to see a Power Couple. I want to see Gazlowe and Mida.S.Silvertouch become a thing, then to take over the Cartel. Come on, who doesn’t love Gazlowe? and Boss Mida is cool.

But hey, who knows…

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Yeah, that is because the events of Dalara and how pissed he was on what happened there, the drama with Jaina was everywhere there.

He what? He got threatened by Garrosh and instead of standing up and truly caring about other Horde races who were in similar preassure from Garrosh, he chose to negotiate with their mortal enemy, Alliance. As much as I would love to see Sin’dorei return to fold, that is still betraying the Horde and very cowerdly move for Lor’themar.

As for Sylvanas - he has always been her lackey and I dont get why. Starting in Woltk she literally threatened him to send his troops to Northrend and he could not even stand up for his people when they just survived a civil war!

And in Legion and now in BFA there are so many references from him being grateful for Sylvanas for their survival and being the member of Horde.
Sure she gave her life for her people, but she had also changed to the core and aint same when she was alive!
If he cares so much about appriciating the Heroes of Sindorei, he sure did not show any to Alleria, when she chose to leave her people and kid to go to alien word to put the end to the threat that killed their in masses. But all she got was his arrogant pep talk, instead to greet her as champion and in the end she was exlied who her own city. How ironic!

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“Garrosh later summons Lor’themar for a private audience, thanking him for his loyalty. When prompted to discuss the nature of said loyalty, Lor’themar makes it clear that he is loyal to the Horde, though Garrosh reminds him that he is the Horde. Lor’themar corrects him, stating that he is merely its leader. As Garrosh observes the sin’dorei retinue leave Orgrimmar, he uneasily concludes that Theron in particular is worth watching.”

‘Shadow of the Sun’ happened just pre:WotLK want to hear the latest dialogue between them?

“I could raise your Rangers, they could fight again?”
“Do that Sylvanas, and I will deal with you Myself”

I think it is safe to say the power dynamic has changed.

There aren’t any in Legion. In BfA he says she once was a hero, and is hard to work with.

Did you…do the same scenario? I mean he -describes- her as a hero of Quel’thalas, a daughter of Silvermoon, I mean that is why she is allowed to the Sunwell. I mean he -says- that! She was only Exiled after her presence threatened the safety of the entire -Species-… I mean, that’s merciful…they should have just killed her.

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My picks would be:
Alliance:

  1. Humans: A Council of nobles, of which at least one has a Garithos mindset.
  2. Nelfs: Tyrande after Malfurion’s death.
  3. Worgen: Genn
  4. Dwarves: Moira’s son as a 8 year old or something.
  5. Gnomes: Gelbin
  6. Draenei: Yrel (let’s kidnap her from WoD)
  7. Pandaren: Who cares? I certainly don’t.

Horde:

  1. Orcs: THRALL!!! Without all the World-Shaman stuff…
  2. DS Trolls: Rokhan (didn’t he get some development in BfA?)
  3. Tauren: A council of all Tauren clans (Tauren, Taunka, Yaungol, HM Tauren etc)
  4. Goblins: A sassy, cold-hearted female golddigger Goblin who married Gallywix and got him assassinated.
  5. Forsaken: Nathanos after Sylvanas’ death.
  6. Belfs: Who cares? Kael’thas will always be the Thalassian ruler in my heart and I’m so glad that he didn’t die being Horde scum.
  7. Pandaren: IDC
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I’m personally fine with most leaders keeping their role.

But I do want Goblins to pull a Michael Corleone and have Gallywix drag all the Cartels under his wing with an ultimatum that kills opposition and forces the rest to submit, to form a single gigantic conglomerate akin to the one he had in Kezan (that seemed to fracture a bit after Cataclysm). With a mixture of Kingpin and the most ruthless capitalist jerk there can be.

Also, I want them to fix Baine. To have him start addressing the elephant in the room and acknowledge with its proper weight things like the Barren invasion, etc. As long as they do that, I’m fine with keeping him.

The rest of the Horde is fine as is…when they actually bother giving Trolls and Orcs something that resembles a leading figure.

Alliance side, things seem a lot more established. And the only ‘fixing’ I’d do, would be to have Anduins position challenged by some other prominent Stormwind prominence. Boy Kings shouldn’t be this kind of flawless and perfect.
And best case scenario, should have at least someone challenging their position.

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Yeah, Sin’dorei have always had sharp tongue, but in this he had no back up for his words, he was lying to him. You know it I know it. Garrosh maybe suscted it. Its a fact.

To be honest that retort is nothing except, angry kids answer to a tease from bully.
I had fun with that in SoO.

Even in BFA he has the same backbone, even Baine stood up against her (and fanbase dont like him :frowning: )

Yes as as for the last part, all I got from him was a token of formal respect. Nothing else. He’s reception was cold, not allowing her to have a privite reseption with Alleria, who imo has same heroic deeds as her sister! Forcing her to talk with new Nighborne allies, showing that he cares more about them then her.

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What if

Vol’Jin becomes a Loa and darkspears keep him as their leader?

After all, in bfa he’s all but “dead”

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He was on paper part of the Horde for a short time. Between the recruitment quest when the blood elves joined the horde after the final ghostlands quest and his first raid encounter to be precisely.

Her first reaction after 1000 years demon fighting when she returns to a azeroth, is to ask them rejoin the alliance. Even tho she is completely disconnected to what happened since she left, not even trying to hear out the blood elves part of the story first. Worse than that, she does it because the human King tells her so. She came for political recruitment not for sentiments for the other Elves. I would have reacted just the same as Lor’themar.

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That doesn’t really count… He was independent of both factions in the end.

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I love you too, Erevien.

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Yeah, that scenario unfolded only after Lorthemar had recieved her with their new guests !

What do you want her to hear and learn from him, the race that once fought orcs and the reason why she left her own homeland and planet her kid to fight for safety for her world, have allied themselves to that same race. Another race that has slaughtered 80% of the nation, was literally choking Sindorei territory wise. Sylvanas bullying Lorthemar until now.

Take in consideration she still has Alliance mindset and High Elves fought alongside Alliance! Having a chance to give respected hero a private audiance to have chance to discuss such matters for a leader of a nation is a must!

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That was the Scourge. And Arthas and all his servants are dead.

Hard decisions to make, hard decisions were done. In the end it worked out. The Sin’dorei are back on their feet. And it was not the Alliance who made this possible.

Why should he? He already knew the reason for her coming when she arrived. And it was the perfect opportunity, in presence of new elf allies, to call her out on it. If he wouldn’t respect her, he would have just listened to Rommath and denied her access to the Well. But he didn’t. Because he valued her as past hero of the kingdom still. Until the almost disaster with the void happened. Amazing how Rommath is always proven right.

Yes I know. Everyone knows. The High Elves are the top 1 cheerleaders for their human masters :slight_smile:

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I think if gallywix would die it would more than likely end up in chaos because all goblins want to be the big boss and use their money and connections trying to become it.

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