" So says the shadow of Xavius "
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After having watched the well of eternity on youtube and reading the book you can tell Legion was indeed the best expansion.
Wrath was also with a lot of content.
And Hellfire Citadel raid for me was epic with Mannoroth and Archimonde.
Also Legion m+ and raids were top notch quality
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It was the best expansion of wow3. But objectively wrath was prolly the best, imo tbc but aye.
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wrath was the only expac so far to introduce a hero class in the death knight
Legion and Demon Hunter?
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Legion was the expansion where I finally âgotâ WoW.
I miss it, it was great fun albeit so broken in hindsight, BfA was such a let down afterwards. The first 2-3 months of Shadowlands did capture that excitement but they made an absolute mistake with the endgame, to many systems.
I hope for a Legion 2.0. For all purposes it was when a lot of people I knew started trying WoW. Hell, it was a group of 20 of us that left what was then a pretty active DAoC to play it.
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Legion had its problems. No one denies it.
But overall, it was probably one of the most solid expansions they ever made.
There was so much to do in legion.
Asmongold said this once and after thinking about it, i realized how right he is.
There was more content for the archeology alone in that expansion than the combination of all professions in shadowlands.
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For this topic i will reply with this character the one i used to actually play legion content.
And i can say that legion was awesome alrethe renferal was best raid boss ever imo.
Ioved the fact they made classes more special again actually making you interested in rerolling another class and try that out.
They introduced demon hunters in that expansion another hero class . And the first expansion ever to introduce allied racesâŚbig plus imo even though they were locked behind rep grind. So yeah i agree legion was pretty amazing expension.
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Legion was fantastic, Artifact weapons were really good, pvp was alive, world content was great and the raids were even better.
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Legion introduced all the issues we currently have in the game beside the covenant lock.
It worked because it was new and innovating, not because it had a great design. Content was great and the delivery excellent (77 day patch ?) but 7.0 was much worse than 9.0 in many ways
Oh you canât swap covenants to play multiple specs ? No worry in 7.0 you could only play one character because of the massive AP grind. And only for one of its specs of course.
Torghast is too grindy and a chore to obtain legendaries ? Well in 7.0 you better pray the RNG godâs gave you the right one because z character can only get 4 of them. If youâre unlucky you can delete your character and start again.
Legion worked very well, but if you have any issue with systems, retention features, heavy RNG & borrowed power then you have legion to thank for it.
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Absolutely agreed. Legion is the beginning of WoWâs third era and it was sustained by a relatively good story (because comparing WoWâs effort at narrative to itâs competitors is like comparing an amateur boxer who does a bit in the ring every few weeks for fun to Tyson Fury. WoWâs plot is a badly told joke, but Legionâs plot held up well) and the novelty of the systems it introduced in a very palatable form (who didnât enjoy wielding ashbringer or getting new cosmetic skins for it?).
But you are 100% right that the downfall of the current game began there as Blizzard drew entirely the wrong lessons from Legionâs success and forged two inferior system ridden expansions after it in itâs image.
Right now 10.0 is being built. If the WoW development team has any sense theyâll finally let go of the template they built in Legion and begin WoWâs fourth era. Weâve lived in the shadow of that expansion far too long. It was a good expansion but it has a lot to answer for.
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I kinda agree. As a Paladin main back then I adored Legion. Loved the lore, all the zones (especially Suramar), there was so much to do and the music was amazing.
The raids stole the show and imo there was not a single bad raid in Legion, though EN was a bit dull after a few weeks.
On the other side it brought us m+, which was very good but brought back a lot of elitism and boosting into the game. I really donât like that an mmo is being turned into an esport. Also borrowed power started here. I also didnât like the AP grind which felt endless and the fact that the Weapons and class hall are now not used anymore.
Convoluted systems need to go, the mission table needs to go, we need ONE good system they can use across all of the expansions, not a scenario like âhey welcome to this new land, hereâs X system that gives you Y power, but donât go to that other continent, it wonât work thereâ
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Agreed on how esports is damaging WoW. I would argue itâs the reason mythic+ isnât what it should be. Mythic+ should have been the ultimate dungeon experience, each pack of mobs a puzzle designed to be carefully crowd controlled to defeat (which would have brought back a neglected part of class tool kits). Skill should have been judged with a death counter for satisfying, meaty runs.
But while a careful, methodical run through a dungeon where each pack was dismantled through player skill wouldnât look as good on an esports, they turned them into time trials where the goal is to pull as many trash packs as possible and blast them down quickly in order to beat a timer. But hey, they made an esport out of it. An entire game mode infected and damaged for an annual event involving a few dozen people at best. Talk about having your priorities the wrong way.
10.0 is being built right now. The next expansion has to be a triumphant return to form. If Ion stands up on stream and starts talking about the importance of our choice between the Army of Light and the Soldiers of the Void and how we will be earning Asterite power to progress our chosen side Iâm quitting then and there most likely.
It is definitely my favourite and the one I pick to level in. They got a lot right in that one. Of course, I had my gripes, but with my rose-coloured goggles they werenât gripes compared to now.
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MoP was 
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The issue imo is that their current design rely on fixing issues rather than innovating.
Just look at Shadowlands, which imho is following a vastly superior design compared to early Legion & BFA. Itâs main goal was to fix BFAâs biggest issues and it did a great job at doing that (Systems barely impact your performances, legendaries are RNG free, professions went from catch-up to mandatory, no infinite grind but rather two weekly quests, no more â75 rep & 25gâ worldquests, no loot system, PvP vendor with BIS gear etc).
But it still suffers from the overall player retention design (Torghast went from a very cool piece of content to an ash grind with barely any rewards, gem sockets locked behind open world grind, slow & grindy conduit catch-up etc), the usual balance issues & the need to force players through specific pieces of content as if they needed to justify its existence with in game metrics.
So yeah of course everyone went to Korthia but not necessarily because they were interested in open world content but rather because they wanted the gem sockets that are mostly available there. Was alienating your playerbase worth getting a dozen more hours of open world content ? Casuals like me wouldâve flooded the zone anyway.
Anyway, rant time is over.
Blizzard seems to be unable to not take players by the hand and show them what to do.
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Didnt know an expansion that was the result of further pruning of abilities would be considered the best expansion
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No it was not panda boy.
Many of your points are valid. Shadowlands design is superior to Legion and BFA, and that was why it got such plaudits during the beta. But hereâs the problem, the template of WoWâs third era is horrible. Fixing the Legion and BFA design is akin to fixing up a dilpadated house with a flawed foundation, itâs still going to collapse given time.
The core problem, I mean the really core problem, is the design philosophy that now pervades the game. The obsession with endgame and the dessication of the RPG elements required for an MMORPG to thrive.
Every aspect of content is tied to player power. Torghast, required to grind legendaries for player power. Korthia, required to grind conduits and gem sockets for player power. The covenant system, on the face of it an almost perfect system for player expression by asking us to choose from four different groups with different aesthetics, stories and cosmetic rewards, ruined because itâs tied to player power via pointless soulbinds and class abilities. On my main Iâd love to go Kyrian, but I have to be Venthyr for my guild and so I fruitlessly receive anima rewards for a Covenant I have zero interest in.
We demand player housing, they donât do it. They gave us garrisons in WoD, but that was an epic failure of a feature because it wasnât about player expression or player customisation it was instead about, you guessed it, player power at the time. And they donât do player housing because itâs not tied to player power. Itâs not a system they can fine tune or metric for the purposes of progression, and itâs an evergreen system theyâd have to commit to expand.
We demand extra character customisation, they do it to a point and then drop it during the lifetime of Shadowlands. This wasnât player power, but it was a feature they could sell to us with a bullet point as an expansion feature. As soon as we bought the expansion they lost interest despite telling us more customisations could be added.
Allied races were extremely popular but most of them could have been easily folded into existing races, expanding the customisation options available to a player on a given toon, but they were instead marketed as distinct races with racial packages many would happily race change for.
And the narrative has been brutalised. The story is a joke. The content doesnât flow from the story in an organic, exciting way. The story is designed to get everyone to the next piece of content as efficiently as possible through emotionally shallow setpieces or credibility shattering reveals. All for the endgame.
What they WoW designers want is a lobby game and if they could get away with having us stay in Oribos whilst queuing for battlegrounds, PVP theyâd probably be happier.
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