Hahhahahaha.
No.
I went in with ICC heroic gear as frost mage, sitting at almost 30% haste unbuffed. I could kill fully PvP geared people in a deep freeze if I could cast, troll racial + icy veins + almost 30% haste unbuffed. I could get like 4 frostbolts and 2 ice lances in a deep freeze.
Sure, I died fast myself if people actually hit me but if someone got deep freeze on them and they didn’t stop me from casting they were going to die.
Damn I ran out of trolling flags in this post…
Clarification: One would not “stack” resilience unless they were going for cap - 1/3 overall damage taken reduction from resi on top of anything else like talents, spells, armor, crit dmg taken reduction, etc. It was rather passive stat that just was there somewhere because PvP items had it, and you kinda wanted 4 pcs set bonus, or 2x 2 for some classes for more resi so you could stack the killy stat, already being able to survive more than 5 seconds of fight.
Thing is, in Wrath you definitely WOULD get 1-2shotted if you had 0 resilience. Sure, you could be PvE glass cannon turret, but you literally died the second someone looked at you funny and threw something like FS-Lava Burst, Immolate-Conflagrate-Chaos Bolt, 4-stacked Blast, 4-stacked Missiles. Or someone’s DoTs would eat like 20% of your HP per tick because resilience granted additional DoT damage taken reduction. Or a Warrior would Charge Bladestorm you from 100 to 0.
To be able to really play PvP you simply HAD to have resilience. Otherwise see the part about glass cannon. Example: PvP geared & talented Mage had about 25-26k hp and would take about 4-5k damage from said Lava Burst because resilience overall + resilience crit dmg taken + any other reductions. PvE mage would have something like 21-22k HP and HALF of it - if not more - would be lost from single LvB cast. Or the shammy would just cast FS on you and watched it tick as your HP went down. THAT was the reason resilience was desirable to have - if you had to survive first and kill other players second, the very existence of hard hitters like Elemental or Destruction kept in check PvE geared raiders in PvP. And you had to play battlegrounds/WG to get honor for offparts like wrists etc, Arena to get arena points for set parts (head/shoulders/chest/legs/hands) and weapons. The only role PvE played in this was sniping some specific content for OP trinkets, strong weapons, ARP/Haste offparts, maybe weekly VoA if you were feeling lucky. PvP gear wasn’t 100% useless, just like 50%… because all that stamina/resilience wasn’t helping you at all if you were dps or heal, and tanks wanted more stamina that was on PvP stuff and some defense/avoidance too. Only thing that resilience was good for was crit avoidance cap if you were still completing your tanky gear. Booting PvP playas from raids was widely accepted because their output was like half of what PvE would do. Different gear for a different task, same as not tolerating soft, squishy PvE guys in bgs.
100% agree, this worked, so this is the way it should be. Just needed some adjustments like more killy stats on PvP gear - not everyone ran on crit in Wrath yet this or mp5 was the “base” stat on sets, so casters had to have all haste offparts, haste trinkets, rings, weapons, and physical dmg chars had to stack ARP.
If someone was killed by Frost Mage during single Deep Freeze (5s base minus reductions, assuming they didn’t break out of it earlier), they have my pity, because there was something wrong with them. Very wrong. Like bringing PvE gear to PvP fight and wondering why those crits eat 1/3 HP. Frost Mage couldn’t kill a fly without support back then. And if you did let PvE glass cannon stand and cast spells at you, the truth is that you deserved it.
Nobody survived that if nobody stopped me from casting though, unless they were with a resto druid to save them with hots. Resilience wasn’t strong enough to counter almost 30% unbuffed haste + troll racial + icy veins.
Seems like you forgot about over 100k pvp bots that were left there by Blizzard until they lost a case against Honorbuddy.
Or Ashran being one-sided, all my friends who started in alliance got full honor geared in less than 4 hours in Ashran with epic pieces.
Wod had no outdoor content until Tanaan, that’s why (and because of the pruning) people were bored.
You’re trying to say facts, but if we’re talking about gearing up through only pvp I would mention MoP.
Even though MoP had CC issues you could gear up only through pvp and enjoy the game.
The PvP vendors are back in Shadowlands, it is now possible once again to gear through PvP alone if you so desire.
However, PvP shouldnt exist in a disconnected vacuum from the rest of the game, if so Blizzard could just remove PvP from WoW entirely and make it its separate game. PvE gear should be useable in PvP and vice versa, the option to gear through either one should be there, but WoW is a WORLD, the whole dividing everything into atomized instances with 0 interaction inbetween is what makes the game stale.
I know how strong caster PvE turrets were in bgs in Wrath, been there, done that. Hell I myself would use 2p t10 instead of just t10 shoulders + 4 pvp set parts sometimes just to get that haste buff - hence the part about letting the glass cannon stand and keep casting. Nobody sane would just watch as squishy, delicious free HK on legs destroys their hp pool. If they did, well, you did them a favor as hopefully they’d learn to go for soft targets first. Resilience not being good enough to counter crazy burst was a problem in lot of cases, like humans armed with 2 PvE trinkets vs anything else with 1 PvE + resi/break CC medallion, warriors with ARP offparts & very high dmg weapon like Shadowmourne or LK sword. This required some tuning (trinkets were just too strong) but the system as a whole worked well.
“Useable” and “option” being the operative words, YES. Should never, ever be “best” and “necessity”. In both ways.
It’s like it’s mainly pve game with a side serving on pvp or something
Of course the starting point should never be that Blizzard intentionally puts a very overpowered trinket like the Ink Pod on a raid boss and nothing similar in PvP to ‘‘force’’ people into PvE content if they dont want to.
But they shouldn’t be limited to designing raid gear around ‘‘b-b-but what if pvpers have to gasp pve???!’’
If something from a piece of PvE content happens to be slightly better than an equivalent of PvP or vice versa then so be it. It has been this way since vanilla where the r14 weapons weren’t even BIS for PvP. This is an MMO, it’s not league of legends, perfect balance can never, will never, and should never be first priority.
At what point to be competitive in PvP(arenas) in this game you where not required to do PvE content?I am curious to the answer.
Exactly this^
Mop, wod.
If you have a child and an adopted child you have to love both. It’s not a Harry Potter situation here in wow.
PvP must be as important as Pve as long as there are players occupied with it.
Also I’d like to add a little info about the game’s origin which was built on a conflict between horde and alliance.
Solution: remove corruptions. We have had enough rng in this expansion already.
Nope,from what i know.
MoP no some of ToT and SoO gear were to good to miss out on for PvP.
Wrath too. PvE stuff only worked in the direction of glass cannon, you would get more output, but at a price of being more vulnerable to damage than if you had PvP stuff. Unholy DK for example, strongest weapons were Bryntroll (in general bc life drain = more damage & less death strikes) & Shadowmourne (for melee heavy fights bc THE highest melee damage possible + insane STR values), best trinkets Death’s Verdict/Choice (passive AP + STR proc). Didn’t have any? Don’t worry, it just means you have to kite & DS a bit more and nuke a bit less, you still grind things to death while being hard to kill yourself. And PvE trinkets had annoying tendency to proc at the exact worst possible time, so that burst would just went out of the window.
tl;dr You COULD, but really did not need, unless you absolutely, positively wanted every possible advantage.
Then you don’t know it well, sir.
Should have said after 5.3,pve items were good in world pvp only.
Instanced pvp had a trinket bonus and weapons had a huge chunk of pvp power. No pve item had a bigger influence on your character back then.
Unless you were human . Which any serious Arena player was hence the faction imbalance later leading to human racial nerf .
Wrath especially had it this case.People with Val’anyr(Holy pala where unkillable) and Shadowmorne where on high ranks rest could just stare and whine.The trinkets(deathbringers) from ICC for dps where one of the best one at the end of expansion.
Wrath if anything is one of the best examples you had to do PvE in order to stay competitive in PvP.