This is an utter strawman though. So the answer is only clear when you ask the wrong question.
I remember what happened to the q times when they seperated out the twinks, I was levelling out of brackets before the q popped. So removing twinks didn’t seem to get any more people playing PvP.
But we both know you are spouting off about something you know nothing about.
“Twink is gay slang for a young man in his late teens to early twenties whose traits may include: physical attractiveness little to no body or facial hair; a slim to average build; and a youthful appearance that may belie an older chronological age.”
While the concept holds true, the logic does not. That sort of difference is what happens at 120 instead of twink brackets. The difference between a twink and a non-twink is infinitely smaller in terms of what gear they can get. What matters a lot is playing the “right class”, which isn’t a twinking issue, it’s a class design issue.
That is entirely not tied to twinks. In fact, the difference between a leveler and a twink in that bracket is marginal at best (although they do have access to a few niche engineering items). What matters in the 20 bracket is if you are playing the right class.
My vet warrior gets destroyed by both non-twink and twink arcane mages and restodruids, despite the fact that my veteran is quite well geared.
That is factually wrong though. When the seperation happened, a lot of core queuers have been barred from queing BGs, to the extent that you could outlevel a bracket before a queue popped. Before the seperation, queues were no more than 10 minutes in the 39-59 brackets (I can only speak for those as that is what I played). If queues are not popping, nobody is having fun.
You forgot to mention the “Alchemist`s Flask” https://www.wowhead.com/spell=114786/alchemists-flask from Alchemy, which gives you a buff with +8 main stats in 20-29 lvl BGs vs levelers with gray/green items which have less than 8 Str, Agi, Int in total
Levelers running around in grays doesn’t happen unless they forgot to equip gear. Most players, because there are barely any new players, use heirlooms, and in fact, a lot of gear is much better than heirlooms - heirlooms are only great because enchants carry over, so you don’t have to make a huge investment.
Suddenly, when they don’t forget to equip gear, that +8 main stat difference doesn’t seem that huge.
Which means nothing. The point still stands, twinks use BIS in every slot, the average leveler / person does not.
This means the average person is at a disadvantage to every twink they encounter. If you put twinks and average people together you get a very one sided fight.
The author has clearly stated the only reason they want this is so they can stomp on noobs. Which would be detrimental to their experience and only benefits one person the twink.
This is just wrong in it’s entirety. The difference is not small at all, considering a lot of BIS items for twinks are outside of the heirloom range for most brackets and the additional perks from professions provides a clear advantage to any twink.
There is no reason on this earth that a twink should be queued with the average player.
If you were a 1100 rated level 120, would you want to be queued with a 2600 rated 120? No and if you do you’re the EXCEPTION and not the rule.
Don’t be so humble, you’re also doing it blindfolded and with 1 arm behind your back, right? Razien, THE best player of lowbie bg’s in the history of WoW!
Oh really? A person with enchanted looms would have 7% versatility at lvl 20, a twink sits around 17%. Someone who doesn’t have enchanted looms aka a new player would have 4% or less. Yup, “marginal at best”. Typical twinks downplaying how powerful they are. You’re not fooling anyone with your lies, or perhabs you do it to fool yourself into thinking that.
Lies. Once people found out they don’t have to spend an entire WSG being chased by a twink who took the flag hostage and bled the game until the last moment, they started joining.
I think what you are talking about here is your twinker battlegrounds cause when the Twink Exile happened, somehow you fellas stopped wanting to “fight each other” like you claimed.
Marginal is very subjective word
For someone 700hp 50dps VS 2500hp 200dps is marginal difference, for others it is a massive one.
And really, fresh players looks at class fantasy, they are not going to read and watch videos, to what OP druid or mage they should take.
Maybe make a freshie with little gear (just what you get from quests, couple random dungeons), turn off exp at 19 or 29, and show the world how skill is more important than gear when fighting low level twinks. Then I will believe
Except the fact that back in the day, twinks could literally oneshot people - that doesn’t happen anymore, unless you’re an MM Hunter fully specced into crit for more consistent oneshots.
The average person is also at a disadvantage whenever I do BGs on my main at 120, because I am well geared.
Well, I left out the assumption that the leveler semi-twinked themselves out, which takes 0 effort to do. At that point, the power difference IS marginal. Sure, the twinks who levelled up Engineering got their extra gadgets, but those are niche, and they don’t always work, thanks to the quality gnomish and goblin designs.
There is every reason to let us be able to do it. The strawman argument is that it’s not rated, the normal argument is that at the end of the day, as I said, it doesn’t matter, because now instead of being locked to a bracket, we chase levelers across brackets - assuming they actually pop, because ever since the seperation, queues have been slow.
That’s his reasoning of wanting to be able to twink again, then again, he’s doing a horrible job at presenting his arguments. 120 BGs are infested by Gpyro and healers topping people in 2 buttons. Twink brackets don’t have that(of course excluding 20-39, which are infested by Arcanes and Restodruids), which is why twinks enjoy low level brackets. Not only are a lot of braindead stuff not present, numbers and utility is also different.
Which isn’t a huge difference at all? Sure, twinks put in a lot of effort to get the best vers gear, but they are also lacking other secondary stats + levelers get new spells as they level up, while lvl20 twinks don’t. Of course, twinks also put in the effort to get professions, but ultimately it relies on the leveler if he wants to spend 3 minutes of his life making himself strong, so he won’t get farmed in a PvP mode.
And again, you can’t expect a new player to thrive in a 16 year old game with lots of veterans, ex-gladiator / ex-elite players, and high rated people. “But the new players” is nothing more than trying to bribe the other side to feel bad about nothing.
Because, again, there aren’t enough of us to sustain regular twink queues. How do you think a community of 10-12 people who log online regularly can sustain regular battlegrounds?
Sure, twinks across all brackets could have banded together on a single bracket, but a lot of us love our own brackets. I don’t want to do 110’s, another guy doesn’t like 80’s, some don’t like 59’s. At the end of the day, people are attached to the bracket they played on, their characters that they spent a lot of time on.
The reason why I could level up this rogue from 59 to 120 without remorse is the fact that this was a very young twink of mine, that I made in BfA launch. However, ask people like Razien to move brackets, and you’ll get the hardest “no” of your life.
Marginal isn’t a subjective term at all. Of course it can depend on context, but in the context of WoW, the numbers you proposed is a 400%+ difference, which is massive, but that isn’t the case in twink brackets at all.
New players will get dominated no matter what. They will get dominated in 19’s, 29’s, all brackets, even 120’s. And rdruid-arcane mage domination stops at 39+, and skill starts to matter a lot more.
As I said, in those brackets, class choice matters a lot more than twink gear, or skill. And it wouldn’t be the same experience at all, because I’ve played WoW for more than a decade now. There is an inherent difference of skill and experience. I can tell when I’m going to die, I can tell when to capitalise on a kill opportunity, I know when to peel for my teammates, I know what gear to get and I know I’ll pick either Arcane or Rdruid, becuase they have infinitely more utility than any other class at those brackets.
thats a lie, heirlooms were strong for a long time yes, but now the average heirloom is maybe 1 stat less strong than a blue item . Add gemmed enchanted items and epics/legendaries on top of that then twinks are far more superior than heirlooms
You heard it here first guys, 4% versatility vs 17% isn’t a huge difference at all! Keep denying and downplaying it all you want, not the first time that twinks do that. Have fun in that fantasy world inside your head, I’m done with you. Good thing Blizzard was too.
How about you read what I wrote? non enchanted levellers have around 4% vs twink with 17%, enchanted looms have around 7% vs 17%. If you think 4 and 7% vs 17% isn’t much, then you’re ignorant. We all know most twinks like to think they’re awesome players, when in reality it’s the gear that carries them. And this was really the last time I’m going to reply to you.
It’s not my fault that non enchanted levelers don’t want to put in a couple thousand golds and a few minutes of effort into their characters when participating in a PvP mode. Sure, new players etc etc but again, all new players will be bad at any aspect of the game.
Okay, so if newbies are going to get destroyed anyway then why try even bother removing Twinks?
Was pretty easy tbh, can barely call that an argument.
If bgs actually popped we’d be enjoying that a lot. You people operate under the false assumption that we would hate fighting other Twinks which… well, is completely false.
Our problem is not getting bgs at all.
How come?
Bad example. None of those are MMORPGs, where progression and gear is part of the core concept.
Again, a very bad comparison. The two are nothing alike.
Give me a source on those numbers, please.
I didn’t know somebody did a study =0
What a ridiculous straw man this is.
Not really. It wasn’t as bad as you make it out to be.
8 stats is not going to be the difference between shredding a bg and not shredding a bg.
This “point” is pointless. You are literally saying “getting better gear is bad!!”, which again… is the very key concept of the entire game.
It also means that a new player is at a massive disadvantage vs a person in heirlooms or someone who does alot of dungeons and has alot of blue gear.
Let’s ban those from bgs too!
That’s him, I am not him.
I just want bg pops. Period.
If you factor in all the advantages any player can easily obtain then theres no real reason to keep twinks out.
There’s your reason. Just because you don’t like that doesn’t mean it’s not true.
That is precisely what happens all the time in rbgs though?
No need to inflate it just because you’ve ran out of arguments.
Rofl no a fresh allied race already has more than that baseline. If you enchant looms you’ll be at what… 15%?
There’s the pot calling the kettle black.
That literally still happens to this day in every bracket.
What you just described there is all you need to twink a character LOL.
Legendaries and most epics are garbage due, to the stat squish. Further evidence that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Wrong.
Almost every twink I know is 2500+ at endgame though. We all run around with Elite enchants and Gladiator Tabards.