People really need to consider the full result if this was implemented. I mean, what, are you the kind of tedious person who just claws at any chance to reduce the time it takes to level? You really think it should be the case that it should take half the time? As in an example of 1-60 instead of up to 120?
If not, then what's the point? 120 is hardly a massive number to deal with here is it. If it takes twice as long for each level, then what has changed? You still have to wait precisely the same amount of time to get new spells. Not to mention the fact damage and health numbers are things you have to consider most of the time.
The reason for damage and health squishes is because having to deal with MILLIONS is rather a clutter on screen and numbers that high do rather take longer to read that a three-digit one.
The reason why item level was squished was because it wasn't linear scaled, due to the mess left behind by numerous expansions. Plus that was going up to 1k, again a rather higher number than 120.
A character or NPCs level is hardly unreadable now, is it? and indeed it isn't exactly a number you even have to pay all that much attention to.
Either people simply haven't actually thought about this; or as I said they're the type who hopes this'll be a way of massively reducing the time to reach cap. Well, they've already said they're happy with the time it takes, so if they did a level squish - again using 60 as a simple example - then every level would simply be twice as long.
The problem is you don't realy get anything new in most cases then you get a level. And at level 80 you complete your spellbook, for next 40 levels you don't get any new spells outside of 2 talents.
For many people that just doesn't feel rewarding and level number feels kind of meanlingless. In reality it wouldn't change anything but there is pshychological effect on human when get something after hitting next level.
For many people that just doesn't feel rewarding and level number feels kind of meanlingless. In reality it wouldn't change anything but there is pshychological effect on human when get something after hitting next level.
03/11/2018 22:58Posted by DaecimusPeople really need to consider the full result if this was implemented.
They didnt say they where doing one please dont scare monger when not needed.
https://www.wowhead.com/news=288411/blizzcon-2018-world-of-warcraft-q-a
Q: Character progression when levelling is not quite satisfying i.e. not a lot of talents or new abilities come up while leveling, you don't gain as much good feelings as you level.
A: We agree we're not happy. No talents, no new content as you level, really. A level squish would be a big ordeal and maybe weird psychologically. But good leveling progression is something that is a big deal and we're actively discussing it.
Tell me and us all where they said they where doing it ? they are thinking about leveling progression that simple.
I am against a level squish, it doesnt worth the trouble.
Additionally it would make each level longer, the reason i quit mop was because i couldnt handle all the grind to get to max level, each one of those 5 levels was insufferable long
Additionally it would make each level longer, the reason i quit mop was because i couldnt handle all the grind to get to max level, each one of those 5 levels was insufferable long
03/11/2018 22:58Posted by DaecimusEither people simply haven't actually thought about this; or as I said they're the type who hopes this'll be a way of massively reducing the time to reach cap.
Perhaps you're the one who doesn't think things through.
The leveling experience already feels bland because we have a limited amount of abilities and talent points that need to become available over x levels.
If you have 20 class abilities at level cap, and you have 120 levels, that means roughly every 6 levels a new ability becomes available.
Cut that down to 60 levels, and every 3 levels a new ability becomes available.
The point here is that leveling up actually feels more meaningful when things -happen- at said levels. What's the POINT of having 120 levels? Answer me that.
It used to matter because every single level gave you a talent point and you got to train new abilities and upgrades every two levels. It MEANT something to level up.
These days you go up 8 levels and literally nothing has changed - the mobs even scale with you. There's no point in having those 8 levels.
Maybe you want to think things through for a bit before you accuse others of 'not thinking about it'.
By your logic there would be nothing wrong with going to level 500 in the next expansion, because hey, why not?
Not that you GAIN anything from those levels, but hey, big epic number!
It gets even worse when you consider stats.
You want to keep numbers at a fairly reasonable level, but at the same time you need to have progression. Aka number inflation. If you want to start off at "100 damage" at level 120, what does that mean for every other level?
It means your stats need to get stretched out over 120 levels. Which is exactly why at the moment we're in this really RETARDED situation where you can get a new piece of gear that has perhaps +1 strength, an upgrade over an item you obtained 30 levels ago.
It's just plain ridiculous.
But keep telling yourself we're the ones who don't think about it.
You didn't even bring up a single argument why they SHOULDN'T do a level squish, other than the low effort "hur durr 120 isn't THAT high guys!"
That's just blizzard being bad. I mean how hard would it be to reintroduce a sort of rank system again and you simply get upgrades for your skills as you level up. Also, it would need to be active, rather than passive as in not just magically fly into your spellbook so you dont even notice it. the player must perform an action to get it, like either buy it at a trainer or via a talent tree where you put a point.03/11/2018 23:35Posted by CedradThe problem is you don't realy get anything new in most cases then you get a level.
I don't think we need a level squish, but we do need new spells for the higher levels.
Say, So, since the last talent is 100, make one for 110 and one for 120, giving us more spells to use. Also, we should get new spells to learn at specific levels, such as 105 learn another damage spell, 110 level a utility spell, 115 learn a second utility spell and 120 learn another damaging spell. This might give classes a bit more of a fluid feeling, rather than some classes having to sit and wait for spells to come off CD, energy to go up ETC
Say, So, since the last talent is 100, make one for 110 and one for 120, giving us more spells to use. Also, we should get new spells to learn at specific levels, such as 105 learn another damage spell, 110 level a utility spell, 115 learn a second utility spell and 120 learn another damaging spell. This might give classes a bit more of a fluid feeling, rather than some classes having to sit and wait for spells to come off CD, energy to go up ETC
120 levels also makes no sense...
When wod released, why could a simple peon easily murder us? And that was after we had just dealt with some of the best orcs there was.
When wod released, why could a simple peon easily murder us? And that was after we had just dealt with some of the best orcs there was.
04/11/2018 00:03Posted by EvangeliàI mean how hard would it be to reintroduce a sort of rank system again and you simply get upgrades for your skills as you level up.
Now imagine we reach expansion X where we reach level 200. We still want players who reach level 200 to be looking at reasonable health and damage numbers, so in order to keep those at reasonable levels, everything between that and 0 needs to be stretched out across 200 levels.
Good luck.
Maybe after going up 40 levels you will finally get a new gearpiece that has +1 crit over what you already had.
It's not a good leveling experience.
One can also start wondering why every expansion remains a forced part of the leveling experience. What's wrong with turning old expansion content into optional content, instead of mandatory leveling content?
What you describe sounds a little like the current situation?04/11/2018 00:09Posted by Naeya04/11/2018 00:03Posted by EvangeliàI mean how hard would it be to reintroduce a sort of rank system again and you simply get upgrades for your skills as you level up.
Now imagine we reach expansion X where we reach level 200. We still want players who reach level 200 to be looking at reasonable health and damage numbers, so in order to keep those at reasonable levels, everything between that and 0 needs to be stretched out across 200 levels.
Good luck.
Maybe after going up 40 levels you will finally get a new gearpiece that has +1 crit over what you already had.
It's not a good leveling experience.
The stretching isn't ideal and would need to be rebalanced per xpac, but at least you'd get something every now and then.
04/11/2018 00:09Posted by Naeya04/11/2018 00:03Posted by EvangeliàI mean how hard would it be to reintroduce a sort of rank system again and you simply get upgrades for your skills as you level up.
Now imagine we reach expansion X where we reach level 200. We still want players who reach level 200 to be looking at reasonable health and damage numbers, so in order to keep those at reasonable levels, everything between that and 0 needs to be stretched out across 200 levels.
Good luck.
Maybe after going up 40 levels you will finally get a new gearpiece that has +1 crit over what you already had.
It's not a good leveling experience.
One can also start wondering why every expansion remains a forced part of the leveling experience. What's wrong with turning old expansion content into optional content, instead of mandatory leveling content?
Lmao I can imagine comparing equipped level 10 item from starting quest and level 110 item from antorus:
+1 Strength
+1 Critical hit
+1 Mastery
The only meaningful part about a high level cap was the fact that certain levels served as thresholds for expansion content. That was made redundant thanks to scaling.
Big numbers are good when something significant is happening. Otherwise it's just annoying clutter that can even be immersion breaking if you're like me and care about details. Critting for 100k is only cool when mobs don't have 2 million hp.
Level cap being too high can also be somewhat immersion breaking. At this rate, we will reach a point where a random animal from a future expansion will have enough stats to technically one shot the Lich King or something. Doesn't make much sense lore-wise.
I think reducing the level cap by 50% would be really cool. Getting new spells would be enjoyable. Gear upgrades would feel more meaningful. The world would feel more relevant. They don't necessarily have to reduce the time it takes to level.
Big numbers are good when something significant is happening. Otherwise it's just annoying clutter that can even be immersion breaking if you're like me and care about details. Critting for 100k is only cool when mobs don't have 2 million hp.
Level cap being too high can also be somewhat immersion breaking. At this rate, we will reach a point where a random animal from a future expansion will have enough stats to technically one shot the Lich King or something. Doesn't make much sense lore-wise.
I think reducing the level cap by 50% would be really cool. Getting new spells would be enjoyable. Gear upgrades would feel more meaningful. The world would feel more relevant. They don't necessarily have to reduce the time it takes to level.
I personally think the time it takes to reach max level should be massively reduced. Whether that is done by a level squish or some other way, I don't really care. In my opinion it shouldn't take more than 30-40 hours to reach max level. Right now it takes around 30 hours just to get from 100-120. During that time there is no character progression, and the content is so easy that you aren't learning anything useful, so to me it is quite pointless.
The only thing that makes WoW leveling bearable is the storylines, but these have zero replayability so once you do them the first time, they become very very boring. I honestly see no point in WoW leveling right now. It takes far too long and doesn't benefit anyone in the slightest.
The only thing that makes WoW leveling bearable is the storylines, but these have zero replayability so once you do them the first time, they become very very boring. I honestly see no point in WoW leveling right now. It takes far too long and doesn't benefit anyone in the slightest.
I heard that Guild Wars 2 doesn't increase levels when a new expansion is released. Can someone that plays it tell us how progression works there and how it feels?
If the system works, Blizzard could get some inspiration from there.
On the topic of leveling...I hate it. I only do it once for the story and then I just die on the inside every time I level an alt. Nothing will ever change that feeling for me. They can only shorten the time I have to experience it.
If the system works, Blizzard could get some inspiration from there.
On the topic of leveling...I hate it. I only do it once for the story and then I just die on the inside every time I level an alt. Nothing will ever change that feeling for me. They can only shorten the time I have to experience it.
04/11/2018 00:03Posted by EvangeliàThat's just blizzard being bad. I mean how hard would it be to reintroduce a sort of rank system again and you simply get upgrades for your skills as you level up. Also, it would need to be active, rather than passive as in not just magically fly into your spellbook so you dont even notice it. the player must perform an action to get it, like either buy it at a trainer or via a talent tree where you put a point.03/11/2018 23:35Posted by CedradThe problem is you don't realy get anything new in most cases then you get a level.
There's rank system. Can't remember specific details but there's an ability that gets new rank at certain point reducing the cost for a monk, etc. It's not enough.
04/11/2018 00:35Posted by LiriI heard that Guild Wars 2 doesn't increase levels when a new expansion is released. Can someone that plays it tell us how progression works there and how it feels?
If the system works, Blizzard could get some inspiration from there.
On the topic of leveling...I hate it. I only do it once for the story and then I just die on the inside every time I level an alt. Nothing will ever change that feeling for me. They can only shorten the time I have to experience it.
What they did for the expansions of GW2 was introduce "elite specialisations" for each class. To unlock these new specialisations you have to go around the world completing events to collect points to spend, and this formed the main focus of end-game character progression. Imagine if for your warlock, as you leveled up you only had access to Affliction, gaining talent points that you can only use in that spec. Then when you hit level cap you have to gather more points around the world by completing tasks or killing world bosses to unlock Demonology and Destruction.
NO!
03/11/2018 22:58Posted by DaecimusPeople really need to consider the full result if this was implemented.
They didnt say they where doing one please dont scare monger when not needed.
https://www.wowhead.com/news=288411/blizzcon-2018-world-of-warcraft-q-aQ: Character progression when levelling is not quite satisfying i.e. not a lot of talents or new abilities come up while leveling, you don't gain as much good feelings as you level.
A: We agree we're not happy. No talents, no new content as you level, really. A level squish would be a big ordeal and maybe weird psychologically. But good leveling progression is something that is a big deal and we're actively discussing it.
Tell me and us all where they said they where doing it ? they are thinking about leveling progression that simple.
Comprehension fail much?
I said 'people'. It is common that players are asking for this. You know, given the fact SOMEONE HAS ASKED THAT QUESTION IN Q&As TO BLIZZARD TWICE NOW.
04/11/2018 00:35Posted by LiriI heard that Guild Wars 2 doesn't increase levels when a new expansion is released. Can someone that plays it tell us how progression works there and how it feels?
Can't tell you about Guild Wars 2, but can tell you that expansions generally means "Adding something to the game". As in, the core game remains the core, but expansions add additional options and content to enjoy.
That's not what WoW expansions are. WoW expansions are game replacements. Like, every time a new expansion comes out, everything before it becomes completely irrelevant.
I'm all for a leveling squish + making leveling more challenging (aka - foes that will actually deal damage and will make characters to use CD's, interrupts, moving, etc).
For me, the best setting is:
lv 1-5: starting zone
lv 5-60: Old world content with challenging leveling, group quests etc.
lv 50-70: in level 50, you can approach the caverns of time and choose one or two past expansions to level in them, with the difficulty they posed when they were end-game.
70-80: current endgame zones.
This, together with adding more abilities, will scale things just fine (my opinion, ofc).
For me, the best setting is:
lv 1-5: starting zone
lv 5-60: Old world content with challenging leveling, group quests etc.
lv 50-70: in level 50, you can approach the caverns of time and choose one or two past expansions to level in them, with the difficulty they posed when they were end-game.
70-80: current endgame zones.
This, together with adding more abilities, will scale things just fine (my opinion, ofc).