Lifebloom broken?

WoW Classic Mists of Pandaria Classic Discussion
1

i want to preface this a bit; this is not a whine thread calling for nerfs, i don’t want the game changed at all when it comes to abilities/spells.

that being said; what do you guys do, when you enter a BG, and there’s 3-4 druids running around together healing each other by spamming rejuv/regrowth and then covering those buffs (also known as buff shielding) with Lifebloom?

see the brilliant thing about druids in TBC is that their heals over time effects stack - all of them, stacks, this combined with their ability to turn into a tank on a whim means that a druid covered in hots are nigh on unkillable.

once a druid has 3-4 rejuvenations active all covered by 3-4 x 2-3 stacks of Lifebloom, what do you realistically do to kill that druid?

during the HVH bg test phase i ran into A LOT of ‘premade’ squads of druids who would run this setup. they would be very coordinated, meaning that if you attacked one druid he would instantly go into bear form while the other druids would HoT him up, and when you changed target to one of the other druids, the former targeted druid would exit bearform, start throwing HoTs while the next targeted druid would immediately go into bear form.
thanks to innervate they would never run out of mana either, and splitting up your dps to attack them all had really bad results as well.

so, basically, you can’t focus dps one of them, and you can’t split dps between them…
so how do you realistically deal with this crap? one particular squad was so confident in their immortality that one of them would do /sleep and /yawn while 6-7 people were hammering away on him on the Farm in AB (they were on the alliance team).

here’s the deal with lifebloom that makes it so hard to deal with; its that while it is indeed dispellable, dispelling it will just cause it to heal for its full effect, which means dispelling a druid is shooting yourself in the foot, even if your intent is to dispel his various other buffs, your dispel will very likely hit the lifebloom instead and repeatedly heal him as he reapplies lifebloom stacks knowing full well that you are trying to dispel him, in order to weaken him enough for a dps focus.

so how do you deal with this? i personally don’t have a solution other than “just deeps harder” but if there’s 3-4 druids all hotting up AND going into bearform, then there is just no way you’re killing one of them no matter how much DPS you pump.

Oh, and CCing them is basically not really an option either, being that druids are immune to slows, roots and polymorph, while trying to fear them or stun them will have little effect as those abilities will hit their DR before you can manage to seal the deal, being that you are trying to outdps 2-3 different HoT effects applied (repeatedly) by 3-4 different druids.
the coordination needed to keep them all under control using only stuns/fears to the point where they can’t heal would be tremendous.

(last edit i promise): i know some of you will say “just mortal strike, no HoT efficiency!” well… cyclone my dudes… Cyclone… and if that don’t work, entangling roots. a squad of druids like this will never allow a warrior to even come near them… “what about rogue wound poison?” i hear you say, well, abolish poison lul :smiley:
“Hunter’s Aimshot??” - Cyclone, Outrange, GG.

Let me repeat my prefaced comment; i don’t want druids to be nerfed, individual druids are relatively killable, but once they stack up you really see how they start to become broken.
so how does one deal with this?

2

This is faithful to TBC. It was like that then and it’s like that now. You can CC them but yes a group of 4 healers, especially restro druids, is going to be hard to kill. Thing is though, if they’ve got 4 healers all at one base, that probably means there’s no healers elsewhere - go get another base. And also, while they can survive, they probably aren’t going to do too much damage to you, so they can’t kill you either.

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thats what the rest of their team is for m8. the squad of druids usually follow or are being followed by a couple of dps that kill stuff for them.

4

I think 5 healers of any kind focusing on keeping each other alive are pretty much immortal.
The way to deal with it is, I think, to keep them busy with one or two dps, just slow them, attack them and then fight 13 vs 10 in the rest of the BG.

It is still worth it to dispell if they use all kinds of buffs. That way you remove the buffs from other classes (kings, fortitude, etc) which will help with eventually killing them. And if a shaman pays 300 mana or so to remove 1 rejuv and 1 lifebloom it’s still worth it.
Lifebloom only procs if you dispell it entirely, if someone has 3 stacks of lifebloom and you remove 2 of them the final “explosion” of healing doesn’t happen.
Manaburn / Manadrain is also an option, if one of them goes into animal form switch to the next.

5

i’ll respond a bit later, got a meeting to attend in 15 minutes.

keep providing feedback please, i particularly like Senju’s advice, albeit i do have a few things to point out in regards to that when i get back home.

cya in a bit!

6

Something else to mention is that a coordinated squad of 5 people of any kind is very strong.
5 mages, all focusing the same target and using iceblock / frostnova to stay alive when targeted while the other four keep nuking probably oneshot anything. And that is just one example.
Imagine a 5v5-Arena-Team engaging a bunch of players not expecting to do an Arena fight right now.

Spellsteal also doesn’t trigger lifebloom’s final explosion when it removes it from the enemy. It does cost more mana, requires a mage specifically and only removes one debuff at a time, though.

I guess it helps to play a druid yourself and notice what works well against you. When I think “class x seems overpowered” and then play class x I notice what people do to stop me from being that overpowered. :slight_smile:

7

Sorry but this sounds like bs tbh. I have a very hard time beliving a druid would stand and do emotes while 7 guys are nuking him. HoTs would barely have time to tick if 7 guys converge on 1 player, their combined hits would probably total more than the players entire hp-bar. Dead in one or two GCDs.

And this whole attitude that CC, manadrains, mortalstrike-effects, purges etc “is not an option”… Well I’m just going to be blunt and translate this rant to what it looks like to me:

You’re not really looking for a solution, you struggle vs X-class and need confirmation that they are op so you don’t have to feel bad at the game.

8

So they’ve got 7-8 people all in one place? That’s definitely time to go take a different base.

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Hello guys the enemy has multiple healers in one spot and i cant kill them they must be op

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hello, i’m back from the meeting and ready to respond.

I think 5 healers of any kind focusing on keeping each other alive are pretty much immortal

This is true, but its even more true in the case of druids, at least with priests you can get a lucky burst and take them down and in case of shaman/paladin you can interrupt and silence (school lock) quite easily as they both require time to cast every healing spell in their arsenal, they are also much easier to dispel/purge with priest being harder to purge as they have a lot of dispel resistances, but there is no real danger to spampurge a priest like there is with druids due to lifebloom.

The way to deal with it is, I think, to keep them busy with one or two dps, just slow them, attack them and then fight 13 vs 10 in the rest of the BG.

we tried that. the druids always managed to turn up where they were needed the most.
we try to get GM - druids turn up and make tagging the flag and killing the defenders impossible.
we try to get BS while they are busy at GM - people would stall long enough for the druids to rotate.
same story if we went to LM or Stables, they would simply turn up, start rooting, cycloning while waiting for the majority of their enemies to die and then take back their flag.
im not saying its impossible to beat them, just that its really hard. me and a buddy did manage to win one match where the enemy team had 4 druids, but we were both shocked that we did, because it looked like a loss for the entire game.

It is still worth it to dispell if they use all kinds of buffs. That way you remove the buffs from other classes (kings, fortitude, etc) which will help with eventually killing them. And if a shaman pays 300 mana or so to remove 1 rejuv and 1 lifebloom it’s still worth it.

That’s what i do tbh. when they are at full health and got tons of buffs the obvious thing to do is spam dispel/purge on them until all their buffs are gone, and then proceed to deal with the HoTs afterwards.

Lifebloom only procs if you dispell it entirely, if someone has 3 stacks of lifebloom and you remove 2 of them the final “explosion” of healing doesn’t happen.

Oh it still happens, its just only 1 stack worth of healing “explosion” if you do, but its really easy to juggle the lifebloom and make sure it always triggers 2 stacks, by simply keeping lifebloom on the 2 stack sweetspot, which makes trying to purge them a surefire way of them getting instant heal bursts. if you wanna buffshield your other HoTs just keep 2 stacks of lifebloom on and you will strongly dissuade any would-be dispeller.

Manaburn / Manadrain is also an option, if one of them goes into animal form switch to the next.

Yeah i suppose so, but you know as well as i, that when they notice they are getting mana burned they immediately go bear or cat form :smiley: its really not a viable option.
the mana burner (usually a priest or a hunter) will likely be dead before they are, because the people protecting the druids won’t just stand around and allow that to happen… or well, i guess in some cases they will, after all, people in bgs aren’t the most attentive bunch.

11

Sounds mostly like their team was better and your team were lacking damage or not focusing properly (which IMO happens a lot in BGs). ANY group of well coordinated decent players, especially with healers, can carry a game against randoms.

You say they root your warriors, etc. Well, where are the dispells, freedom, etc? The way you put it makes it sound like the druids are the only ones doing what they should, or your team composition was lacking support classes :stuck_out_tongue:

In short, your team seem to be lacking something if the druids are really “unkillable”.

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12

Sorry but this sounds like bs tbh. I have a very hard time beliving a druid would stand and do emotes while 7 guys are nuking him. HoTs would barely have time to tick if 7 guys converge on 1 player, their combined hits would probably total more than the players entire hp-bar. Dead in one or two GCDs.

you can believe its bs all you want. i have no way to prove it other than my word, so trying to prove it to you in case you decide not to believe me is futile, all i can do is tell you that definitely happened.
the reason he was doing it was because their victory was already secured, so he and his friends were just memeing on us by that point in the game. and he most definitely was able to endure due to bear form armor + the other druids spamming regrowths/healing wave on him while the HoTs were ticking.
i realize you’re a warlock so you naturally think damaging a druid is easy since bear form does nothing against magic damage, but i can promise you, physical damage is reduced A LOT in bear form… a crit which normally hits someone with less armor (lets say a leather/mail user) for about 1200 hits a druid in bear form for like 500-600, which given their 9k+ healthpool makes it easy to survive the damage of a couple of warriors, rogues, feral droods, enh shamans and hunters… had it been 6-7 casters wailing on him he probably wouldn’t have /yawn and /sleep’d but that just wasn’t the case, so that’s that.

You’re not really looking for a solution, you struggle vs X-class and need confirmation that they are op so you don’t have to feel bad at the game.

and yet you don’t provide a solution yourself.
surely a proper solution to the problem would be more effective as an argument against mine, than assuming im just buttmad and unwilling to acknowledge a solution?
as you can see above, i am treating Senju’s advice with proper consideration and i provided explanations as to why i don’t think CC, Mortal Strike, Purge, Poison and Mana Drains proper solutions.

of course, if you can coordinate stuns/fears to the point of near-perfection yes, you can deal with the druid squad that way, but that sort of requires the stars to align, and is something you (probably) won’t be able to consistently pull off.

13

Well you have been spoonfed multiple advice on what you can do but convenient enough none of them work according to you.

My solution when facing multiple healers is to coordinate CC, dispel/purge etc as everyone else already mentioned. Use your tools… Your team have abilities as well, they aren’t alliance only.

Sure you can sit in a root and not get any dispell/freedom but then it’s an issue of L2P and not a class being broken.

And if they are all sitting in bearform to avoid manadrain, guess what, they won’t be tossing around any heals while in bearform. And if 2 of the nonfocused druids shift into bear to avoid manadrain, they’re wide open for banish, hibernate, fear beast etc. But yeah, cc doesn’t work, I forgot that part.

And as someone else said if there are 4 coordinated enemy healers on the farm in AB and you can’t coordinate CC at all - perhaps you could consider zugzuging away to another base with your club, just a thought.

But really, this says all we need to hear tbh.

I wonder why you are struggling… Yeah, class must be broken.

14

I don’t know how much mana your priest burn but catform and bearform cost 500 mana (that is with -30% shapechanging costs from talents) and you can’t do much useful stuff in those forms in healgear. Effectively your priest can interrupt their own spell and consider it successful in burning 500 mana.
Travelform is cheaper but does not protect you from manaburn unless you use it to get out of range.

What you are describing there is a fight where there are 7 or 8 enemies at one base in AB. I am sorry to tell you this but this is not a fight you are supposed to win in offense. By the time you kill 5 of them the first bunch has already respawned. Keep them busy and attack elsewhere.

You said that you couldn’t do that because they got there too but…
I guess, in the words of the Roly Poly elders: “Git gud”. You can’t win every battle.

Premade with 4 others, get in discord and see if you can’t dominate fights in a similar fashion. I am sure you can. And in the meantime the rest of your team might hold or might lose the other bases, same as it probably happens to those druids too.

15

Well you have been spoonfed multiple advice on what you can do but convenient enough none of them work according to you.

and i explained why.

My solution when facing multiple healers is to coordinate CC, dispel/purge etc as everyone else already mentioned. Use your tools… Your team have abilities as well, they aren’t alliance only.

right, except dispelling druids is dangerous (as again, i explained alreadym when you do that you often trigger their instant lifebloom heal) and the only CC they are susceptible to is stuns and fear, also good luck coordinating that with a pug team :smiley:

Sure you can sit in a root and not get any dispell/freedom but then it’s an issue of L2P and not a class being broken.

True, or maybe there’s just a particular lack of priests and paladins. who knows. nah it HAS to be l2p. right i’ll just learn to get more palas and priests in my bg, thanks man. this changes everything!

And if they are all sitting in bearform to avoid manadrain, guess what, they won’t be tossing around any heals while in bearform.

What makes you think all 3-4 of them will be in bearform?? 1-2 of them will stay in caster form while the other 1-2 go bear and charge the mana drainer and bash his head in, then switch to kitty to dps him down while the 2 healer druids throw hots and kite.
they’re organized remember? they will be ready to deal with something like that.
if you have a lot of mana drainers there then sure its an option. not gonna deny that, although what will likely happen is that when the two druids who are healing are going low on mana they will go bear form while the two druids in bear form will switch to healer, and by that point the mana drainer(s) will be out of mana or be dead.

And if 2 of the nonfocused druids shift into bear to avoid manadrain, they’re wide open for banish, hibernate, fear beast etc. But yeah, cc doesn’t work, I forgot that part.

well first of all, you can’t banish beasts.
hibernate is probably a good option, but fear beast? are you kidding? i don’t think i’ve ever seen a hunter use that ability.

And as someone else said if there are 4 coordinated enemy healers on the farm in AB and you can’t coordinate CC at all - perhaps you could consider zugzuging away to another base with your club, just a thought.

Yep, and the druids promptly follows.

I wonder why you are struggling… Yeah, class must be broken.

I guess you’ll see when you try to actually deal with the organized druid squads for yourself…

16

Rofl. Ok.

You can banish them in treeform, my point is either they sit in caster and are susceptible to manadrains, sheep whaterever, or treeform and can be banished etc, or bear and cannot cast new heals and are open for fear beast, hibernate etc etc etc etc etc. There are a metric f-ton of solutions to your problems. You refuse to face that though. None of this works according to you.

Sorry, but they aren’t immortal. I know you claim they can go AFK whilst being zerged by 7 dps but yeah sorry…

Is your issues with lifebloom all of a sudden morphing into an issue of pugs vs premades now? Wasn’t this about lifebloom being op? You can’t just claim lifebloom is op because a premade 4 healer comp is stomping your pug-team while you are refusing to use CC and all other tools at your disposal…

And therefor lifebloom is broken? Mmmm kay…

17

Sure, if you are painting a wierd scenario where you are in a team with 0 priests and paladins etc, a pug-team as well and everyone is thinking like you that CC and utility-spells won’t change a thing. Facing off vs a premade with 4 healers. Yeah you’re gonna fail. Tough luck.

That doesn’t equate to lifebloom being broken though…

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Forged in the fires of the roly poly…

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Kinda funny how druids come here commenting on like “yeah well others have heals too, well yeah you can really kill 5 druids, yeeeah its hard yeeeah” :smiley: Druids are really good and tbh OP in tbc, but thats just part of the game. I guess wotlk will treat you guys differently when holy pala becomes the fotm but thats another story! But yeah, imo druids are just a boring but cancerous class, id roll one myself if I liked their boring kit.

20

Apply mortal strike to squishest healer. Tell everyone to hit same target. I wanna see those 5 druids keep the guy alive through MS with 10 people nuking him.