[lore] Which is the most powerful Covenant?

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Nerdiest topic possible. Which of the four Covenants do you think is the most powerful, and has the strongest forces?

Imo, despite the Necrolords being the “heart of military might”, I think it’s actually the Kyrian who have the mightiest army.

Kyrians seem to be the most powerful beings in the Shadowlands, with Necrolords making the most powerful constructs from Kyrians. There also the fact that Houses of Maldraxxus are pretty much constantly at war with one another, while the Kyrian are perfectly unified.

And 2/5 houses of Maldraxxus invaded Bastion, managed to take hostages, because the Kyrian were caught by surprise, but managed to do little else, while only 1/5 Kyrian temples invaded Maldraxxus, and managed to destroy a house. They did have help from the rebel of Maldraxxus, though.

There’s also a fact that the Kyrians have legions of constructs, something that the Necrolords don’t have.

Night Fae and Ventyr seem to be far less militaristic than Necrolords and Kyrians. However, Ventyr also have legions of constructs, while the Night Fae don’t.

Night Fae seem to be the least powerful of them all. The Sylvar are mostly cowardly, Faerie use mostly tricks and magic, and I doubt the Vorkai could compete with what the other covenants have. Also the fact that Jailers forces invaded Ardenweald directly, something they didn’t do with the others, seem to cement this.

So my final ranking, from most powerful to the least:

  1. Kyrian
  2. Necrolord
  3. Ventyr
  4. Night Fae
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Did you even played shadowlands at all?

Night fae is strongest. Back to cave troll!

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Venthyr hands down.

All covenants rely upon anima.

Without anima the Kyrian have no constructs or superpowered weaponry.
Without anima the Necrolords cannot “give life” to their various constructs and prevent their forces going mindless.
Without anima the NF cannot keep their groves vibrant and the groves that essentially feed and nourish their realm die.
Without anima the Venthyr cannot animate their stornborn servants.

This is all ignoring how each SL race literally “needs” anima to live and survive, it’s their lifeblood, their nourishment.

Only the Venthyr are able to “extract” anima from souls via their purging process. The NF can grow it in animacones, but it requires anima to feed them in the first place. The Necrolords rely upon souls coming to them without enough of it in the first place, and the same for the Kyrian.

Venthyr get that bonus, but also they are master of extracting anima, storing it, so it can be utilised for other purposes as they see fit. This makes them very powerful, as they are essentially the “bankers” of the SL. The whole drought is caused by them holding onto excess anima rather than lending it to the other covenants (which depend on them).

This alone makes them the most powerful Covenant hands down, as it is them and them alone whom have the means to “starve” the others and prevent them being much of a threat.

Even outright invasion would be tricky, as the Venthyr have their Stoneborn army and appear to be very capable combatants and magic-wielders themselves.
In the event of a conflict between the two, the Venthyr can literally drain anima from the enemy forces they capture to supercharge their own or multiply them.

They’d win a war of attrition like this hands down. To have a chance versus them, a covenant would have to “knock them down” very quickly, because as soon as it becomes about resources - they win.

Any invading covenant would also have to hopefully catch them when their anima reserves are low, because as we’ve seen, the Venthyr are capable of using anima to create superpowered artifacts and weapons which are hugely destructive.
They have the crown now, which although not worn, allows them mighty powers dependant upon the anima they stuff into it. They can reshape reality with it and manipulate anima with it. It’s effectively a superweapon of sorts and would easily allow them to disassemble a huge force of gruntish soldiers with little effort (like the necrolords) or even the Kyrian.

Kyrian would also have to be extremely elite to face up to Venthyr, aspirants “on the way up” wouldn’t be advised to fight them. Venthyr specialise in probing into the past of their charges and baring their pasts to them to force them to confront them. They would easily break down any Kyrian whom hasn’t yet mastered “letting go of their past” and effectively deny that which gives them strength and turn it into a weapon to beat them.

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How are they trolling ? by asking a fun question .

@OP i think in my view Kyrian are with Vent very close .

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Just thinking purely from lore perspective. Well its difficult to say tbh. Because what do you consider a “powerfull” covenant? Military wise? I think Necrolords would win. Their whole existance is based on martial prowess and whose existance is based on “survival of the fitest”. Sure the current skirmishes we had doesn’t show the necrolords in their best form but ancient spartitans which I believe few would dispute their military training and prowess didn’t win absolutely every battle. Doesn’t mean they were military weak either.

If a powerful covenant you mean “on their power to influence others” then I think Vent would actually win. They are trained spies, agents, sabouters. They know how to win “battles” which are not done on a battlefield.
Kyrians are a bit more isolated and their following the path leaves them volnurable. Vent and necrolords will not shy away to win a battle…even if its done in a dirty way. Kyrians who strive to be “pure and holy” might not do it and would rather have an “honorable defeat” than a “dishonorable victory”.

Night fae on the other hand are the most weakest in my point of view. I see them as gardeners who only wish to be left alone with their…uhm flowers. And not engage in some “great politics” and etc.

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Maldraxxian Necrolords. Its lore is literally to be the Shadowlands military. They are DESIGNED to be the strongest. This isnt even up for debate.

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I am biased, so I’d say necrolords are top 1. Don’t care about the other 3.

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Yeah, but is this lore being that their job is to protect the SL from external invasion, not from other covenants?

The ability to be the strongest at fighting external invaders does not necessarily imply they’d be the best at fighting their kin as they are very different kinds of opponents. For a start none of the “invaders” of the SL had the unique relationship (and reliance) on anima the Covenants have.

In all of the scenarios where the Necrolords successfully defended the SL to the best standard, it was implied they were the best for the job assuming the SL is functioning as it should ie they have the anima they need and support they need.

As soon as it becomes about covenants versus other covenants, you can’t assume that. The venthyr aren’t going to keep sending the necrolords anima if they’re an enemy to them? We’ve seen what happens when the Necrolords try to invade other covenants without having the anima they want. They get beaten back, they squabble.

I don’t see it. They’d be formidable, but it wouldn’t be cut and dry. I would depend entirely upon the execution of their initial assaults and how quickly they could roll them out. If done quickly and sharply, they’d probably win, assuming they don’t suffer a coup amongst the houses as they have a few times amongst themselves (it’s literally how they end up with the best of the best at the top, it’s not done through elections after all).

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In general. Their sole purpose is to defend the Shadowlands. Regardless of what it is. However it appears we necrolords are kinda picky as we didnt move a finger then the Voidlords send their minion to attack Bastion and didnt move a finger when the Naaru invaded Revendreth and waged war against Denathrius (only to get slapped by him in the end). The latter was probably because the Maldraxxian saw it a fitting punishment for what Denathrius did and as long as the Naaru didnt invade the rest of the Shadowlands didnt care (either that or the Primus was fully aware that the Naaru would fail against denathrius)

The reliance would only make you weaker if you defacto require. So not having to rely on it makes outside forces even more threatening. And in the end anima is nothing but energy.

I mean their weak become their fuel. Thats also part of their story. Everyone that dies makes them stronger, everyone of their fallen brethren makes them stronger by fueling their war machinery. They are pretty much the scourge on steroids.

The Necrolords had no issues with Invading Revendreth when they found out the Venthyr were in cohort with the Maldraxxian traitors and if needed would have attacked Denathrius (afaik that wasnt their goal. Only to get rid of the link between them and the maldraxxian traitors). And Renethal was more or less reduced to a bystander in his own domain.

The Kyrian (ambush or not) already displayed getting screwed by a single house of the Maldraxxian. Now imagine the entire Zone united. Bastion would get facerolled (and their leader has displayed to be utterly utterly pathetic. Getting beaten by an jailer empowered Anduin? The Primus at least required Zovaal himself to take him on). However now all houses are either united or conquered. Putting them a head of the other covenants even without the Primus until next patch (and with next patch the entire zone is united)

Only internal war could bring them down. Now with the Primus back and with Vyraz dead this is however not logical…

Yes the weak make room for the strong. This is however not comparable to the civil war we had in 9.0 which was the result of the primus being gone. This system only makes them stronger as the ones dead do not disappear but are turned into fuel.

Given how the Shadowlands work the Arbiter had sent all the people to Maldraxxus that are capable of defending the Shadowlands. It was part of her design. It makes no sense to create covenants stronger than them and then call them the defenders of the shadowlands. As i said, maldraxxus is designed to stomp every other covenant.

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Interesting thinking. I never thought about that. However, wasn’t the whole drought caused cause the Arbiter is broken, and all souls go straight to the Maw? The Ventyr only didn’t share their stored anima when other Covenants needed it.

And this is just my theory, and I guess we’ll find out was I right in 9.2, but my theory is that the Jailer only gained power when Devos and Uther threw Arthas, a creature with most anima in the universe, directly to the Maw. If that’s true, it were actually the Kyrian that caused all the trouble.

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I mean, i see my arguments as plausible, but Kret has argued some fine stuff for Necrolords which if I knew a bit more about them, i’d probably have known.

In my mind the question is between those two. I still think the Venthyr wield a lot of power…but with Necrolords it’s hard, because we don’t have good examples of them “at their peak” ie under the Primus.

The Primus is supposed to be this master of strategy and tactics. If he’s at their helm, then that MASSIVELY changes how effective the necrolords are as he’d probably be able to anticipate any strategy the Venthyr may use.

I also completely forgot the fact the Necros literally recycle their dead for anima, so effectively they don’t really “run out” of anima so long as they keep fighting which changes things a bit. Kret laid out a lot of stuff I overlooked and didn’t consider.

Then again, i haven’t levelled a Necrolord char. It is one my to do list for 9.1.

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Except that Winter Queen and Elune will save shadowlands existence.

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It’s fitting how the convenant’s lorewise strength goes hand in hand with their strength for us players. The Necrolords might be the strongest covenant, in defense of the Shadowlands, but they are the weakest covenant for the most specs.
Meanwhile the Night Fae are nothing with the anima drought, but they make up for that by being the among the stronger if not the strongest covenant for most specs.

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You’d expect the Necrolords to be the strongest but I’m thinking the Kyrian too.

People seem to underestimate the Night Fae though, they might be all cutesy fun and games but they’re no pushovers.

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Venthyr, hands down
Maldraxxus maybe have some of the best warriors, but all the ruthless generals from the multiverse whose warcrimes were so great they ended up just before the Maw are their disposal (as evidence, the attoning rite mini event in Ember court have such souls + warlords like Zul’jin are chilling in Revendreth… not to mention those Inquisitors, some of them were wolrd destorying nasty)
Not to mention the Stoneborne legions, the Biggun Dredgers and the Mirror network they happen to have around the Shadowlands, including Bastion and Maldraxxus… heck, they sealed away Anima for eons righ under the nose of the Kyrian and they not even noticed!
Those vampire guys are helluva enemies

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I feel like Venthyr with Denatrius was stongest.
Mald is nothing without primus, kyrian leader got literaly oneshoted by Anduin while he just walked in took the key …and walked off…
Fae doesnt seem to be that conflict thriving place.
If i look at leaders…vent looked strongest…

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your rank is wrong lol kyrian lost vs lion baby king. venthier lost vs some vampires and necros are just as dumb as the other 2.

the only winner here and the one who didnt lose their seal is night fae :slight_smile:
#1 NF
#2 Necro
#3 Venthier
#4 Kyrian

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I doubt it tbh, and your kyrian example is actually why I think so

Two houses destroyed the kyrians & used their bodies for their armies. With the kyrian realms being mostly untouched by war beside a few deserters.

Now if the houses were still whole & United under the primus they would’ve easily swept through the entire realm imo.

Can we really use player actions in this discussion ?

I thought our godlike might and ability to bypass any logic & lore pretty much insured that whatever was fated to happen won’t because XxxDarkShadowHunterxxX, the mighty death Knight, slayer of titans and harbinger of cake would turn squirrels and gods alike to dust.

Don’t they ? I mean the necrolord constructs are kinda alive but they seem to have a fair number of walking monstrosities

Fair point actually.

Do we consider logistics too ?

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Denathrius is. Not necessarily the Venthyr themself.

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  1. Necrolord
  2. Everything else.

Maldraxxi are bred for war, kyrian are glorified FedEx workers, Venthyr repent the misguided and night fae grow flowers.

It’s no contest. Necrolords all the way.

If it’s anything to go by, remember how the start of Maldraxxus began to everything else, being dropped into a arena to fight.

Also if I remember correctly, kyrian were only successful in taking down house of constructs because of Mograine’s and Draka’s guidance and support of Maldraxxus soliders.