Although I understand your point, I feel it’s not 100% M+s fault.
I mean, we’ve seen people behaving this way in a non-timed setting. I guess we see it more since the inception of M+, but in most randomly generated group content, the de facto rule is gotta go fast. It’s been like that since the end of Wrath and the apparition of RDF.
Not saying it’s good or bad though, not even logic. I’ve had tanks leave the Pit of Saron 2/3 into the dungeon because we were “too slow” and “waisting their time”. Them leaving actually rendered wasted their precious time.
Dungeons became to easily available or dungeons became to easy? I think the latter.
Strat 45… daat mechanar spaaam… these could hurt with small mistakes unless really geared. Snorting through HOL in WOTLK not quite comparable IMO.
Halls of reflection was pretty hard, at least I was feeling like this back then.
Tbf I think most people didn’t understand mechanics really well in the old days. We were having a hard time doing pretty much anything because we were just bad at the game. (Of course, not all players)
I’m convinced that an average post-Cata player would appear as a semi-god if they were to be zipped back in time to vanilla/tbc.
Maybe it’s just me, idk.
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Or. Hear me out here. Find / build a group that goes in not caring about the timer? You don’t need a new game mode, you need better communication with people yo group with.
I can tell you rn people value time alot so if you dont time it theyr quick to say smt.
I can also tell that that in a non timed setting this happens even in LFR if people dont know raid tactics on theyr first time
II personally vote to kick douches that just talk trash but arnt being helpfull.
I dont understand it? Stratholme was difficult if you undergeared it. It wasnt that diffcult otherwise. Lots of ads and what not and the very annoying quests in there XD
But you running around 43 gear was no problem for stratholme.
There was a addon that was used in combination of a website which would track when u last got a legendary and would track roughly when to expect the next one to drop
?? Thats totally irrelevant to what I am saying and totally irrelevant to whats being discussed.
I also never used that addon. It wasnt like. ya know, mandatory like raider io
It wasnt mandatory, however it ment lots of players did desync their characters from the achievement tracker.
As the tracker interfered with tracking alt characters legendaries via the site.
Because account wide legendary achievement gains ment it could only track 1 character overall instead of multiple
What has that got to do with disabling achievements?
Legendairys wernt based on achievements? What addon? XD
Oh lord as if imma remember its name after being deactivated 6 years ago now.
If you obtained the achievement on 1 character for gaining a legendary. As it was account wide, it ment the tracker couldnt track anotjer character.
Because the tracker would identify every char after ur first tracker as the person who has 1 legendsry due to the achievement.
Its nothing to do with the game based on achievements it was done to desync account wide achievements displaying on every character jointly. So the site would work.
There was this thing…
https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/legendary-progress-tracker
But that didnt need achievements dissableod.
And it doesnt appear to be downloaded by alot of people either…
Site appears closed down at this point so i csnt find where people were saying yoy did need to.
I know as i desynced mine based on the advise although i did resync it altgough some achievements still havent returned to being visible.
Pretty sure preach did a video about it at one point, i prolly can dig it up later.
The point was the early iteration of speed running which I find strat45 representable of. “beat the timer” was introduced all the way back then.
As for difficulty, yeah gear makes it trivial. My perspective is from pugging scene. It was a really great place. So much potential for mistakes with fear gargoyles, shades, tight pulls and all.
I adore the difference players on equal gear level can have where after a incoming wipe mistake some players just drop the jaw and await it while others crank it up and overcome what would wipe most groups.
And when we get experienced at it, pressing that limit to how early and with how poor gear one can do. You might bring a lvl 58 or two, whole group of 58? I was never so masochist to try that.
Not sure what you mean with 43 gear, a group in lvl 43 gear (the gear that you have at lvl 43) wouldn’t do well in there. Also very much boils down to tank as it’s all about the pulls and the execution. Even poor geared tank could do well with good pulls, perhaps a shackle here and there. Them ghouls hurt.
Creating premade to trivialize the experience kills the fun in it for me unless that’s what I want at that point. Options are nice.
Steamrolling dungeons really kill the gameplay where it’s just numb repetive rotation without any diversity in challenge.
Sucks the soul out of our characters and acting to be one step away from being at automode.
Not why we play an RPG where we all want our characters to actually be a vital part of the group. Not just another random dps/healer/tank.
Even little Billy can make a difference provided he’s good at spamming the frostbolt, best have a good group otherwise as if there’s a chain of mistakes I’m not sure if Billy will pop nova, until just his own life is threatened with no regard for the priest/lock standing right next to where the ghouls he pulled and nova’d.
This also why bring the player not the class idiotology really put a staple in quality of the game. Streamlined experience, noty.
Just pug… I’ve been doing pugs in sl+bfa+df up to 18s - all around the clock 24/7…
Just be patient while forming the group 
You are acting, like its impossible to time low keys, not sure at this point if you are just lazy and feel sorry for yourself or just trolling and farming attention. You are looking for problems that don’t exist. Just because you like the idea it dosen’t mean it’s a good one.
M0+ or M2+ are very very alt and noob friendly difficulties, if people want to progress beyond that, they can use their own key and form a group the way they want it. I realy don’t understand what “open system” you want…
I wish I was able to disagree with this but you are right.
I did Court of Stars +2 with a group consisting 3 people who had never seen it before.
In spite of them not stoping the alarms, dying a lot on the first few thrash packs, the rogue ragequiting shortly before the first boss, wiping on the first boss 1-2 times etc. We managed to time it +1
Still I would like the keystones to just determine the dungeon and not the difficulty. I would prefer if the difficulty was determined by the players just like we can pick normal to mythic raid. If they can clear it, they get the good stuff. They would just need to add a role lock so that people do not go with 1 tank and 4 healers inside (or boss enrage timers).
I think its good the way it is. Like if people want to time higher keys, just practice… Isn’t that why we play? Like If people are super casuals, they can gear up in open world, world bosses, lfr, honnor gear etc. so gear shouldn’t be an issue… Then again, I can’t see the problem with current keys… Okay some might be abit overtuned but that’s problem with higher keys, not lower. Kinda thinking out lout here, since i realy dont get the beef with Kyru and that shaman dude.
When i heard about the Mythics+ instances the first time, i thought it would be a set timer, like “you have 1,5 hours to complete the instance, BUT the difference from M+1 to M+2 is that there is added mechanics to the bosses and some packs, good luck.”
So instead of it being a stressfull experience, it would be a fun and tactical experience.
Much like Raiding, but for dungeons.
Then keep timed Mythics a sepperate thing for those that wants to run the timed runs.
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OK.
Ladder system open for everyone. With emphasis on everyone.
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Then you should not have a problem with adding one more mode where there is no time limit, right? RIGHT?
Let’s have both options in the game. Nobody will force you to play the non-timed mode. You will be free to choose.
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