So you think that removing the ability for people to do Timed Mythic+ is going to open them up for everyone instead of removing the challenge and killing it stone dead?
Which is an individual thing, not a one size fits all that you advocate for.
Stop making up stuff, none is asking to remove timed runs. What challenge? To adhere to toxic elitism and get kicked or bullied because you don’t fulfill someone’s expectations? Yeah. Trust me that is a challenge. A completely unacceptable one.
I dont advocate for rio to be some holy grail. When you invite anyone to a group. If there is a dps spot and 20 people apply. How will you chose? You cant take all 20. Even your auto queue system will take based on some programmed metric.
So what happens when you get an invite in your new system, and the other 4 auto invited people decide that you didnt do mechanics or didnt do enough damage and vote to kick you? Or are you forced to complete it regardless of what other people are doing?
Also Volmir we can all see that you are typing another Novel so try keeping your posts a bit smaller… it makes them easier to read…
Just answered that, the individual thing. I don’t want to make the choice for you nor am I advocating to take the choice away from you like some is desperately trying to make it look like.
A programmed metric that actually cater to a wide audience unlike the current system.
Stop acting like you would lose anything of significance, or at the very least say what you think you would be losing.
This is already answered both here and in game already. Not my system, the vote system is already there. It’s not perfect, very clearly we cannot achieve perfection, but at least we can strive for it and open up the game for people to play instead of going the straight other way of making it even tighter like an e-sport.
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Imagine being as delusional as thinking you belong to a majority. 
Is this why the forums are full with people complaining about the mentality of your kind? If something sucks, that’s M+ and its defenders.
Another silly strawman, never said I cannot do them. I just don’t have fun while doing them. I only there for the gear which I want not for some imaginary e-peen (like you), but because it will enable me to clear the content I actually like (raids).
I already do ALL OF THAT. The only thing I absolutely dislike in this game is its M+ mode, which once again I am forced to do if I want to help my guild to clear the raid. And that’s why, for me, the way forward for the dungeons is a scaling non-timed mode.
I will never quit it. I am only getting started.
Yeah, that’s what you were trying to compare.
Yeah because that’s how badly designed M+ is. If you need to stick a timer to a mode, that means this mode is terrible. I am getting Shadow The Hedgehog PTSD just by playing M+ where the gameplay was easy AF and its only challenge was to do it “in time”. Terrible/lazy game design. Raids don’t need timers to be challenging so why is it so bad that we want Dungeons to be a like small-scale Raids?
This what? Once again, you understood only what was convenient for you. My point went over your head. If Raids and M+ award gear of the same level, why should timed dungeons regarded as supposedly inferior to non-timed dungeons? We can have challenging non-timed dungeons awarding the same level of gear as timed dungeons, since Raids already do the same thing.
Read above, you said it. Oranges and apples. Sorry, you cannot compare players so easily. This is not a black and white situation.
Hahahahahaha i am saying the issue is that M+ is tied to the power of my character and you reply “go do Normal and Heroic dungeons” . Top tier comedy! 
If it’s just my problem how about getting lost? I am gonna complain until my problem is addressed. And I am not alone, much to your dismay.
I will do whatever I like, you cannot control me. Pretty sure Blizz has the numbers, if you are so sure you belong to a majority why are you getting so anxious over this?
According to you what I am asking for will never be implemented. So give it a break, this doesn’t concern you. And we will see in the end if the feature will ever be implemented or not! Or are you afraid you might be wrong again?
Get a grip. I already do Raids. The issue is M+ is an awful experience and I cannot avoid it for reasons which are already explained. I won’t be repeating myself. Or should I? I dunno… Maybe your kind understands certain arguments once they are repeated for like 10 times.
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Actually thats not quite true, Almost all raid bosses have an inbuilt enrage timer that prevents you from bringing in 10 healers and 4 dps. This adds “Challenge” to the fight.
He thinks because there isnt a counter in the top right counting down that time isnt a limiting factor.
Its such a myopic view. All bosses in raids have ‘timers’, whether they are hard enrages where the boss casts a raid wiping spell or soft enrages where you run out of room or ramping damage becomes too high etc.
Honestly, i reject the whole basis of this thread. Its just kyru etc making some supposition and then insulting and flinging 
at anyone that questions their presumption that making their lolchange will ‘fix’ wow.
If they have indeed quit then the timer (lol) on their ability to post cant end soon enough, this thread has been an epic poo storm.
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But raids do have a timer. Each boss has a enrage timer which means it has a specific alotted time you have to kill the boss.
Its just the timer isnt on ur screen by default UI. But your basically proving a placebo effect works.
So how about this:
M+ removes the clock off the screen and instead if u dont finish the dungeon by X time every monster enrages increasing their dmg done by 300% and AoEs start spawning all over the place as u run the dungeon?
Because if u want m+ to work like raids it needs a enrage timer, which will completely remove the possibly to do a key untimed
I mean i am living proof that anyone can do keys.
Im over 50, my eyesight is going (not that im prepared to admit it) My reactions are probably akin to a sloth swimming in treacle but, i started doing keys at the end of BFA and struggled to do 10’s.
In SL i, along with my guild managed to do some +20 keys and get the portals (4 in time i think)
In DF im aiming to push into 24’s adnd 25’s to see if i can handle it.
Bottom line is that if an old decrepid git like me can do them then anyone can.
I dont really see any value in conrtinuing this discussion. Blizzard will never implement timer free mythic+ because it would kill mythic+ dungeons and there obviously isnt enough interest in it as they would be able to see it and react to it.
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Not all fights. And having a “timer” in some boss fights is nothing like having a timer for the whole instance.
Right back at you. Numbers dont lie. I doubt you counted all the posts and profiles commenting right? 
Lfr - Normal - Heroic - then do Mythic. Problem solved for you.
Well like you said, if you don’t want to then don’t do it. Do Normal raid before going into Heroic and then Mythic. It’s not a rocket science. Everything is possible M+ is just an option. If you find clearing all raid difficulties hard or too time consuming then yeah M+ is the way to go. Again, you don’t need to time it and again, you can join a pug.
Deplete them. You have plenty of time that way.
Also if guild wants you to gear up to finish mythic raid, well i guess make a group with guild.
I would suggest you stop, because your prayers won’t be heard.
Exactly! And the timers aren’t even that hard to beat… Some dungeons are overtuned, but they are working on that.
Remember zerg in raids?
Because Mythic raid is much harder in comparison to m+, mostly because you need more players to cooperate instead of 5. Also raids are longer, dungeons are shorter. If dungeons didn’t have a timer it would be less challenging, people would get bored of them faster. Tbh blizzard probably knows the best since they have the real statistical data regarding this.
Raids are dungeons are like oranges and apples. 5 man groups that take 30 minutes vs Mythic raid where 25 players require weeks if not months to complete whole Raid. Also like i stated, timing +20 in 30 minutes within given time frame is more challenging than clearing +20 in 10 hours. Therefore whoever timed it deserves better loot. That’s the point of challenge and if you don’t feel like doing it, nobody is forcing you. There are alternatives to gearing up in other raid modes.
Some are better than others. Not that hard to understand. It’s not that deep bro.
Yeah because apperantly you can spend days in normal dungeon and enjoy it the way you want it right? Slowly.
Please tell me what kind of difficulty you had in mind? Im legit curious what m+ lvl is compared to normal and heroic raid in your oppinion. /think
You aren’t alone. You aren’t a majority either. Numbers don’t lie. M+ is a success and keeps ALOT of players engaged in this game. Specialy the ones that don’t have time to spend evenings to raid.
You can bark how much you want, blizzard only cares about majority of players and will never screw them over, over the wishes of minority. Like you said there are alternatives for you to gear up. If you want to, do it, else don’t.
I’m just trying to save you some time, because this rant wont ever be heard.
I can’t but i can laugh at your face.
You are the one being anxious my friend. Look at how many comments and posts you created. “I’m too lazy to find people to play with”, “I’m to weak to time a dungeon”, “I want participation trophies because i pay for sub”. Might aswell buy a boost there my friend.
Why not trying normal raids? Maybe pug heroics? IDK its your account do whatever you can / are capable of. Don’t blame it on majority.
Don’t. Enough is enough.
Right back at you. Weird that my kind is majority and yours is minorty. Usually minorty is the one with “different” thinking. You know the slow kind.
And FYI, there is a timer in raids. GL helping your guild to progress in raids if you dont know basics of raiding. Maybe you really aren’t good enough for this game after all!
Good for you! My irl friend i play keys with, is around 47 and he is doing a great job. sometimes abit scared and slow, but we manage to time decent keys when we play together.
Maybe those “new school” players don’t have what it takes to fight among us in Azeroth!
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Are we for real here? Is this some kind of trolling? Do you need me to explain how having “timers” for just the boss fights is way better than having a timer for the whole instance?
Because I am sure you are smart enough to realize it yourself, you just don’t have a better counterargument.
Even that is better than what we have now. However, your placebo theory doesn’t hold because as much as it would be cool to have one or at worst two instances like that, the issue is not that the timer is visible. The issue is there is no time for even breathing between boss fights. You cannot socialize, you cannot have a break, you cannot progress at your own leisure, you cannot give pointers to fellow players who might need them. You cannot do anything more than “go go go go go”.
Blizzard considers the run to be one continuos encounter.
That’s funny. I did a court of stars and had it pointed out to me during the last boss fight what I’m doing wrong with tanking it, without any problems.
Man somebody school this Volmir already. Not sure if giga troll or just bad.
But it actually isnt at all. Its litterally identical.
M+ is mechsnically entirely 1 encounter with alot of phases. It was written as such in its very design by the devs.
Providing the enrage timer is large enough to not be pressurising negstively theres 0 difference and p.s none of m+ timers are pressured.
Ive timed keys after 48 deaths, the timers very irrelevant to the pressure, yoyr just creating pressure because ur clocks on the screen.
The timer exists so u cant just run out of dungeon between boss to change gear / talents for ST AoE and sit and wait on BL
I assure you, if yoy remove the timer
M+ will demand 2x sets of gear and seperate talent templates, this wont benefit yoy as u expect.
People will to angle it differently. And the rush rush rush wont change either.
Timer or not. Mass pulling, skips, charging thtough rooms, speeding, booted if u speak, wont change. This is the way players engsge with content not the contents design.
Why would i speak to someone i wont meet again? Honestly. Answer that question theres no motivation for me to socialise with pug players lol.
U think im not nattering with my guild while doing m+ i assure you. I am lol im just not nattering with the people in my group lol
Funny that i talk to my guild and socialise while playing m+ and time keys.
Have you ever maybe just maybe considered, it may just be the fact pugs arent socialable areas??
Dungeons are 20 minutes in lengths the timers are 35-40 minutes odd, people could talk if they wanted to.
If yoy hadnt noticed, gaming has changed stop acting like kts 2004 and start acting like its 2022 people no longer use ingame tools to communicate.
Everythings moved 3rd party in most aspects, and u need to catch up on this, its not the content design thats chsnged us, its evolution of technology that has.
I talk to my guild i type to my guild, i just dont speak to my group.
You are a class and that is all in 90% of players eyes, we will never meet you again, ur present for 20 minutes of our memory. Why would u think players want to socialise with you, when the point of guilds is to fulfill that.
Ur hatred towards m+ seems to exist purely because ur denial of times changing, ur blaming m+ for the gogo meta, the rushing, rhe silence
But in truth, the 0 talking, lack of socialising in pugs etc etc has existed since the introduction of RDF in wotlk. The moment they stripped the weight of ur characters name in the world was the day socialising in a pug died.
People socialose when they need to, cross realm play and auto finders deleted this, because now ur name means nothing making new friends holds no weight anymore. Becoming known isnt possible anymore. Ur actions meaning a damn is lost.
Your blaming content, for what rhe playerbase want. And thats ur issue, u cant accept the fact maybe players dont want to talk, dont wanna take time, want rewards ASAP on rhe content.
Yet u ignore WoW from classic has always appealed to the crowds who love loot, its what the game has done since day 1, we have just over time learnt to become more and more efficent at doing this.
This was a inevitable
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??
Thats why First world teams with top gear whipe 50+ times on ruby and jade… lol
It seems clear to me that M+ on its own is designated to be ‘esport’ which sucks.
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