So a topic that has been spoken about online is the death counter. And many seems to be against.
Now i wonder why. (Mind you i have never done anything higher than M+3).
Why are people against turning it from rush rush rage!! And into Slow and steady wins the race?
Good things about the change is that the timer being gone more classes gets to join and Meta isnt a big deal anymore. We will also have less rage as there isnt a timer stressing people into attacking the player who fudges up… or does lower dammage then the rest
So 2 major things solved in M+ wouldnt that be counted as a good thing?
Now downside with removing the timer is that people wont have to rush and do fatal mistakes. And it becomes way easier and lenghty runs.
Granted having a death counter that only give chanse of one total wipe at lower keys and a single player dieing or 2 at higher keys means. The end then that is abit of pressure isnt it?
But this is just a solo player being curious so if you are for or against timer being changed to death counter then please do tell your reason for your prefered M+ experience as i m realy curious to why people have their opinion.
What do people think of season lockout? like say we got 3 times you leave a dungeon that is started you get a debuff and if you reach 3 you can no longer play competetive that season. now it would have to have a counter of some kind that prevents punishment if someone else left first. but if you are a first leaver without the key being completed you get the debuff is this something that might work? it can prevent leaving atleast. but we might get people who just go afk instead…
Current M+ is far from rush rush. You pull 1 pack at a time and you time up to +11’s at least. The timers are so lenient you have to die a lot to not time up to that keylevel.
When you change it to deaths instead of a timer you turn it into waiting before every pack for all cooldowns. Then CC as much as you can, play 1 mob at a time. Taking dungeons hours upon hours.
The meta will be 5 tanks since they do not die. No healers and no dps allowed anymore. Meta will be more crazy than it is right now. Tank or not play.
I always wonder why this is a complaint. Why is it wrong to ask for the system to allow taking it slow and let whichever group wants to rush? That’s what we used to have in the past; dungeons could take hours to clear, but players would form groups with specific target and speedrun that specific target.
There are only ways you can fail a timer under +6:
You are away from the keyboard
You are greedy and unwilling to move for mechanics or for interrupts
That’s it. A death counter will not change that. You, with your current skill, will still break the keys at +3. You need to get better or stick to +2 +0 max.
Because i do not like it to have every dungeon take multiple hours. It will mean i am not able to play dungeons anymore. Somewhere in an evening it should be possible to do 1 dungeon.
I know i did a Karazhan which started early afternoon, went for dinner in between and continued in the evening. Sure. But i do not want M+ to be like that. I also only did it twice, and from then the dungeon was dead to me.
It’s one of the things I really enjoyed during Classic in 2019/2020, especially the BRD runs. I had missed those long dungeon runs. I do think if Blizzard reintroduced them, there’d be a lot of pushback, fast is best these days it seems.
I’ve wondered if it’d tempt players to return to retail, as I noticed in Classic at the time that many players there had quit retail because of the general pace. Personally I think Blizzard could perhaps experiment with it, have it as a parallel mode instead of replacing M+ with it. But with Delves I’m guessing that ship has sailed.
But this is exactly my argument: Why do you believe your dungeons would take hours? What would stop you from creating/joining groups that will go for a fast run instead of a slow one? Why do you think everyone outside the absolute extreme-est of the extreme would agree to spend more than 30-40minutes in a dungeon?
Just to clarify, what makes Classic different from Retail in this respect is not the length of dungeons, but the pace of the gameplay. In Classic you have forced downtime in the form of hp/mana breaks; fingers get some rest and so does the brain even if it’s just 10seconds every 2 minutes. In Retail it’s constant non-stop from start to finish for 20+ minutes.
The death counter in Delves is very punishing in groups because it doesnt go up to account for the number of players.
So what happens when you run out of lives. You cant complete it and get rewards? This would make gearing worse. Esp when a tank death is often the cauae for a full group wipe.
If they are removing the timer, would they also remove the key system and just let people go to whatever dungeon they want, like you can with Delves?
I’m not sure what this is really a solution to the leaver issues in pug groups. Or is it just meant for people that don’t like timers.
How did you figure that out? With death counter, the specs which have the best survivability will be meta. Since those are the meta, other specs will not be invited, congratulations, you achieved nothing.
You will not rage when somebody does less damage (except when they are not hitting the damage target at dps check encounters), instead there will be rage when anybody dies. Congratulations, you achieved nothing, again.
You did achieve one thing though: You have managed to increased the time it takes to complete an M+ run by 60%! Wooohoo.
Now I spend an extra 15 minutes completing the exact same dungeon run. How lovely.
I am sure there are ways to improve the system. It’s just nobody came up with an idea yet.
Yep, absolutely. In that sense if you’d want to overhaul the pace, you’d need to change much more. And I doubt that would be received with enthusiasm In that sense it’s great that there is both Classic and retail.
How is it solved with a death counter instead of timer?
Meta: will be focused around specs with a high base health pool or plentiful of defensives / utilities.
Rage: each death is one step closer to directly depleting it. Whereas now, you can just push a little harder if you need to cover a death. Dying will lead to more toxicity, not less?
Not realy important. but not going higher than 3+ is mostly because of 3 bad experiences on 4+ and 5+. raging was a issue in both of them even though timer was fine. we got a tank ragequitting and healer in another. so it aint about skill but just experience
One can be curious to why people are against it or for it without it being a issue?. Just simple curiousity and atleast i admit i got no clue about higher up and just ask in general what people think of the system. Such a discussion can result in someone coming with a good change that blizz can use. I just speak the words of what i have read online and dont realy have a clue about how everything works and gladly admits that.
so atleast i dont pretend i got an idea of what the system is like. I stepped away from M+ many seasons ago due to rage and rush mentality so i got no clue what so ever on how the system is now.
been tempted to try it again though! but i m extremly afraid of making people mad. Anxiety ftw
Oh i totaly agree i just strugle to muster up the Courage to do so. I m trying to push myself to try again every single day. but it is tricky to try when anxiety has become a thing with the playstyle.
But i was aswell just curious to what people thought about the changes and their reasons why and many come with solid reasons to be against it and for it so it is fun to read and learn what people think of it
This is just how all dungeons are done now (probably even Follower Dungeons, the NPCs are out of breath complaining about the tank running off).
I think a Slow and Steady format could be added but it wouldn’t replace the existing rush culture. It would have to have the pace reduced by some mechanism (doors that only open when certain mobs are killed or after certain time).
thats community or discord?. gonna check it out. ty for the sugestion!
What do people think of season lockout? like say we got 3 times you leave a dungeon that is started you get a debuff and if you reach 3 you can no longer play competetive that season. now it would have to have a counter of some kind that prevents punishment if someone else left first. but if you are a first leaver without the key being completed you get the debuff is this something that might work? it can prevent leaving atleast. but we might get people who just go afk instead…
In that sense it’s great that there is both Classic and retail.