as much as i like the idea, there is no way an m+ finder would end up not being incredibly toxic.
Well, this is wrong tho. This is why the communities exist in the first place, no? Because people decided to find a solution. But then again, it doesn’t really fix the mentioned issues by me, at least logically. I’d still need to test these communities.
This people? https://www.no-pressure.eu/
Hm… I mean those kinda make no sense I guess^^
Well ye, I guess that’s true.
I was a PvP player mainly myself. The system functions, which is why I was curious about M+, the solo shuffle has completely different issues, which M+ would be absolutely not affected by. Because of that I made this thread. Theoretically, it would perfectly work and make sense. Especially when the only other options are pugging or a pre made group.
Because M+ would not be affected by the same issues the solo shuffle does. There would be basically no difference between pugging and M+ finder. But there are huge differences between arena and solo shuffle.
Maybe, I am not denying that but it’s not like pug groups aren’t already toxic. The point is to make M+ more accesible without facerolling meta, not to fix toxicity.
Ok enlighten me for a sec. I want to hear exactly with your words. What are the solo shuffles main issues in PvP?
I know it’s a weekend, but… HELL-NO.
That would kill the “holy trinity”.
I prefer the solution I had suggested in another thread, where 5man content becomes 5man+1AI content, and the AI covers one role not covered by the group:
- 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps? AI is support (which for the time being it’s only Augmentation)
- 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 support, 2 dps? AI is dps.
- 1 tank, 1 support, 3 dps? AI is healer
- 1 healer, 1 support, 3 dps? AI is tank
- All other human party group compositions do not qualify for starting a run.
This gives flexibility in group composition without eliminating the holy trinity and without requiring to blur the differences between individual role utility.
It definitely, however, does not solve the meta, axiomatically nothing can solve a meta problem outside of making every specialization be an exact 100% replica of each other.
Lack of incentives mainly and through entire DF healer mmr was scuffed which resulted in absolutely unbalanced matches. On top of that not everyone prefers 3vs3. And for healers it was basically like a job healing faceroll dps (which is truly not fun if you don’t even have proper go’s), while absolutely not getting rewarded with anything.
Even the worst M+, will still reward you with an item if you complete. Very same way like a pug. And you could even implement “big” gold reward for healers/tanks (or even all people who don’t leave) if someone leaves.
Basically compared to pugging, this system could be designed to be much better, while not really hurting pre-made groups. Unless, I am truly missing any major point.
The major point you are missing and which Uda has perfectly explained in this or other thread is that there is a severe deficit of tanks and healers. A new system will not “birth” new tanks and healers out of thin air and the current tanks and healers are already skittish enough to join “pre-made pugs” with the responsibility and toxicity it brings along. With pre-mades tanks/heals can at least choose a group which they believe can do the key…with random group finder, they can’t even choose with whom to play and getting stuck 3 randos which are very likely…substandard players cause even descent DPS will avoid the the tool.
So if your main goal is to shorten the “queues” for DPS then the tool wont help them…it will make it worse.
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Well even tho this might be true, you keep forgetting how many heals and tanks are getting declined, included myself. It’s not like I am not there, I just don’t get to play always and I am sure not the only guy. On top of that you could implement an incentive system to increase the participation of tanks and heals.
My goal is not to shorten queue time but more to create more accessibility for non meta specs to play at “mid” (like 7-9 currently) range queues.
I will require at least 2 tokens, and some myth pieces before I will even consider putting my neck out in that toxic cesspool on my tank alt.
Point being, some “50 gold bribe” wont cut it.
Oh nice. Even “better” another reason why tank and healers should avoid the tool. Not only it would be played by people bellow standard performance but on F tier classes.
Even non meta guys who know what they are doing, are just pushing their own keys or doing it with guilds/friends/community.
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I suggest you read your own comment, slowly because you’ve disproved your own point.
Every queued content has been nerfed to oblivion whereas non-queued versions have gotten harder or retained their difficulty. Why do you think that is?
Are you sure about that ?
Perhaps reverse the LFG system, so that instead of people applying to groups, people advertise what they can do “eg LF +6 NW as DPS” and then they can be invited by group owners.
Ppl are concerned it would make it impossible for anyone but the cream of the crop to find a group, since leaders would just cherry pick the best DPS from the pool…
Yes. The people who like participating as anything other than a pure damage dealer are a minority. This is true not only for video games but even for tabletop ones.
Blizzard even changed tanks and healers multiple times throughout the years so that their difference in gameplay from damage-dealers is lessened, in order to make it more welcoming and avoid a “gameplay” shock.
Do you remember when tanks were at their most popular? At MoP. Do you remember why? Because of Vengeance and Vengeance alone, nothing else.
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true because the mythic + random groups arent a disaster at all, it’s just 80% NPC groups and once in a while a good one. Absolute 0 difference to M+ soloque
I’d be already fine with like 1-2k gold tbh.
Doesn’t have to be. Also class balance is not that bad, that’s the whole point but people act like everything is unplayable except for S tier classes. That’s not the case.
That’s the thing tho. There are people who want to chase the score and people who want simple to play but on an appropriate difficulty level. Take me as example, why should I play anything below +7? Even tho I sometimes do it to help people but I also want to progress on my gear.
The classic solution, to do the own keys, would mean I have to play a billion keys until I can swap my key to the dungeon I need.
Also, remember, it doesn’t have to be for everyone but it’s not hurting anyone or does it? It’s just not easy for everyone to get 4 (5 including oneself) online at the same time to play some keys and then, like in my case, the people have to play the key I want. How long you think does this work out? Then you have the issue, if someone can’t join, maybe even several times, then one guy is annoyed and leaves completely etc… I mean I already had this in PvP and we were just 3 people. Didn’t even last a month lmao… here it’s 5 people required… is not that easy for everyone to coordinate 5 people and make everyone happen.
What do you base the first statement on?
Gonna be really bad on higher keys u gonna disband right away depending on groups
Every time I’ve seen queued content been difficulty, it’s the “pros” that can’t stop whining.
They you need to get stronger glasses, because the argument is always “we don’t need more sweaty tryhard content that caters to 0.1% of players”.
But you’re missing the point so let me repeat: Why does queued content keep getting nerfed every time while non-queued doesn’t? There’s plenty of people whining to have M0 or M+ or raids to get nerfed. Why isn’t it happening?
We have story mode dungeons and raids now, so it’s not an excuse for LFR/RHC to be a joke, and yet they are. Why?