“But with the penalty, you’re bound to that group. That’d be a terrible thing”
Actually that is the purpose, to commit yourself otherwise use your key and downgrade it after 5m as much as you want. If you are a leaver then its your problem.
For the afk and zoning out i don’t believe that its so difficult to implement a system to let kick people after a certain amount of time they are afk or zoned out. Way better than not doing anything , or not adressing the problem at all.
Besides all, if leavers are so rare, then this system won’t have impact at all on people that pug regularly.
But if I sign up for a timed 10, and we’re nowhere near the first boss at half time, then that’s not what I signed up for. It is not fair to hold anyone hostage in a bad group.
And that accomplishes what, exactly? You still won’t finish the key, you’ll just waste even more time in a key that’s not going to be finished.
And if you can kick when zoned out or afk, there’s a solution for that too: sabotage the run so someone else leaves first. Or just don’t go technically AFK. If there’s a way to avoid the penalty, people will avoid it, and you accomplish nothing, other than making runs even more painful for everyone involved. If there isn’t a way to avoid a penalty, people will just stop pugging.
And again, this is the millionth thread on the subject. Read the past ones, where this has been discussed to death.
Tbh you just dont care about addressing this. The system will never be perfect. but its far better than saying git gud and find a team, as your solution is.
No, its really not. It’s a dumb solution that in no way shape or form improves the current situation.
This is an MMO, you’ve had years to find like minded friends to do stuff with. If you want the convenience of insta click groups then accept the downsides too.
The problem is already addressed: play with people you trust. It’s an MMO, and people keep whining about it not having a social aspect. There you have your social aspect. Make use of it.
All of the solutions you - and anyone else in the past million threads - proposed had more downsides than upsides, and none of them had really any chance of actually improving the situation.
No, it really is not. You’d have a much smaller pool of players pugging, and you’d waste a lot more time in unfinished dungeons. That is all it would accomplish. That’s not a win in any shape or form.
the afk would be quite easy to change also, make it so if a person afks in a pug, after 1 min they get a debuff that counts down, and they get removed, and if they move to remove this debuff, they debuff stops counting but will stay on the char until the dungeon is compleated.
and if they move and then afk again, the counter starts again but this time after 30 seconds, and counts down from 15 seconds, so and if they do it a 3rd time, they get insta kicked.
this would only be if the group leader have ticked the box for this to happen, so if you go for a normal dungeon people can afk if needed to.
also if you disconect you do not get the debuff, but if you do not log in, for 3 mins, you do get a debuff and is removed from the group.
same time, this happens the timer stopps for everyone, and you can not move, so you can not abuse the system to skip mobs. this only starts after you have fought the mobs you are doing.
Easy to avoid: just run around in circles at the start. Or zone out of the instance and do WQs. Technically not AFK, but you’re not going to finish the instance either.
Once you start punishing leaves, people will stop pugging, because noone wants to be bound to a group that’s just wasting everyone’s time.
Besides, a solution for the leaver problem already exists: invite people you trust. Simple as that. Make friends, join guilds or communities, and you never have to care about this problem ever again.
yes but that could be stopped also, becuse if the person is just moving arround in a circle, the others can kick it, what again could result in a 2 hour lock from any dungeon or raid, where an afk removal would be lower, and same if the person runs out, for a period of time it could result in same thing.
offcourse putting up all theese restrictions would probably make it harder to find groups also.
but then again as you say, doing M+ or any pug content is always a risk, but at same time, there are those who just join to grief also, and now they can do it freely and there is nothing you can do about it.
for me the biggest problem whit many online games are that, the griefers and toxic players can get away whit it, and for the rest there is almost nothing they can do to stop it, you can not name and shame, even if you have evidence, eighter or you risk a ban your self.
as long as we players let theese happen, theese people will continue to grief others as they please.
but problem is, how do you realy stop it, becuse almost every system can be abused and we are back to square one.
Having a kick result in a 2 hour lockout would lead to so much abuse it’s not even funny. You’d have much more griefers there. I mean, I suppose you want the kicked person to not get loot when the instance is finished regardless, right? If so, kicking someone just before the last boss dies would be an easy way to grief.
You solved nothing, but introduced new ways to grief, more severe than what we currently have.
FWIW, most of the leaves I saw were completely legit, and warranted. The few times I left an M+, I feel I was right to do so, too. If I sign up for a timed run, and we’re halfway through the timer and not even at the first boss, it is perfectly ok to leave, because that group is going nowhere.
Play with friends, guild, or community.
Having a penalty would not incentivise any leavers to finish the dungeon. It would make them find ways around the penalty. In practice, you’d have no more finished runs, but more wasted time, and the leavers not penalized either.
it has yet to be established that the leaver problem is actually a problem, it seems to me it is only a problem for the same 10 people on the forums on repeat.
I have pugged to 3k RIO on my hunter, i did not see all these leavers.
I have pugged to 2800 on my warrior, i did not see all these leavers.
I have pugged to 2k RIO on my rogue, i did not see all these leavers.
Between those 3 chars i have something like 4-500 timed runs this patch, so where are the leavers?
I’ve met a few, but we’re talking less than 20, maybe even less than 10… so where are they?
The way i see it.
It’s either A, the leaver problem isnt as big as people make it out to be.
Or B, the leaver problem only happens to certain people for a reason.
seen some leavers my self, but not that much, though most who has been leaving the runs been quite toxic, sometimes becuse they most likely where right run whent bad, or then they where not able to read, when it stated not in time or fun run.
But not to often, but I dont realy pug that much eighter, I eighter do them whit guild or whit a community anyways.
If people leave your group, it’s because someone in that group messed up (or the group messed up as the whole and it seems it can’t beat the timer)
While there is no 100% way to stop people messing up, you can at least try to lower the chance of bad stuff happening by picking players carefully based on their class, spec, RIO, armory, etc. Either that or go with friends or people from communities where leaving is against the rules.
Pugs in m+ is a lottery. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
Make more friends.That is what i did to fix the puging problem.If you meet a good player in M+,TW or raiding talk to them and befriend them.Or you can just play only with guildies.M+ is fine the way it currently is.
key going daplete and your not doing it for weekly theny just there for score 100 procent vilid reason leave dont want waste there time for key does not give them anyting