M+ redesign for better PuG experience

Recently, M+ have become super hard to join and not pleasant to run hence I suggest the following redesign for the M+ system.

  1. Score based rewards

Players should receive rewards based on their score in comparison to the key level they do.

For Keys of 200 score above the players M+ score: The player receives bonus valor, the end-run chest drops an additional item.

For Keys within a range of 200 score of the player’s M+ score: The loot remains the same, and the amount of valor stays like it is in retail, with bonus valor if they get a score increase.

For keys under 200 score of the player’s score: All the party members receive no valor.

So for example, all timed 20 keys give 2720 score, if a player has 2500 score and does a +20, they will receive bonus valor, final chest drops an extra item.

  1. Role based rewards

Healers/Tanks get 10/20/30% increased valor depending on how scarce healers/tanks are at a given moment, like how warmode works.

  1. Balanced party reward

If each member of the party was within 200 score of eachother, the party gains 50% more valor and an additional item drops from the end of the run chest.


In my opinion such a system would encourage players to play with others within their score range and discourage players that over gear and have higher scores from spamming way lower dungeons because they are more profitable.

Valor isn’t going to be used next season, so that’s pointless.

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Thats not booster friendly at all.

Come get boosted, get loads of extra valor and loot.

Sounds like incentive to completely ignore 1 dungeon for always being 200 points short and get more stuff out of every dungeon you are doing.

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I think your idea is good I am going to ignore the Atal Dazan Dungeon. It is bad everyone in there is a loser.

I don’t know if threads like this mean keys at 20-26 ?

Because for 15-16 it takes a few minutes at most.

I Just bought boost until 2400 rating and having like 408 ilvl.

This week is the first week i’ve done +16’s without boosters and i get invited almost instant.

Dono if that rating makes me more appealing to invite tho

if it is hard to join than find a guild or community and play with them

M+ is better designed for PuG than team :x

I think you should take a look at the 10.1 system. It addresses many of your points.

You already do this. The new “valor” is multi-tiered, thus you can only upgrade items if you continuously do appropriate levels for those upgrades.

Valor is gone.

Eh… I guess? I don’t mind particularly.

Why? Genuinely, I don’t understand this. Is it to stop boosting? Won’t really do that I think.

What? :face_with_monocle:

You don’t need more rewards, M+ is already the best way to gear up in WoW.

You need better ways to teach people at low keys, I know it sounds crazy but I think higher scaling before max vault reward is the way to go.

DPS players shouldn’t go from M0-M19 without having to learn a single mechanic to interrupt just because the healer bails them out every time. Then all of a sudden the same mechanics they ignored one shot the whole party. The curve is too steep.

A more enjoyable experience for pugs is if the dungeons weren’t designed to be a complete fiesta from 0-17/18 and all of a sudden requires interrupts, stops, CC and perfect mechanics.

They need to make the curve more linear so players feel they have a more natural learning experience.

Also, completely ban boosting or make the max vault reward so high that it’s impossible for 4 boosters to complete the dungeon, like +26 or +27.

Let people play M+ because they enjoy the challenge, not because they just want to max their vault reward so they can log off for the week.

There is boosting available for multiple levels. When you put the max reward on an unrealistic level what even isn’t doable by the best in the world players on certain specs, then the max ilvl boosting will disappear. Right now there are also +16 boosts for example. Or curve and ce boosts.

One of the features in the Embers of Neltharion content update that we’re rolling out for Dragonflight Season Two is a new upgrade system that will replace many of the various upgrade systems currently in place, such as Valor and Storm Gear, with a single system that covers most of the game. This system will last for the duration of Season Two, and after that we’ll evaluate how well it’s working and whether we want to keep it.

Yes, but boosting a +26 would be incredibly hard, not many boosters available at that level and it would be incredibly expensive, which would deterr customers.

Right now it’s too cheap for a DPS to buy 8 x 20 boosts and then jump into 21/22 runs without knowing any mechanics. Gear can’t make up for mechanics at this level.

What makes you think the +20 boosting will go away when +26 rewards the highest ilvl?

Economics.

Right now it’s so easy to just get max gear from the vault by buying a +20 boost.

A +26 boost would be incredibly expensive, so only the biggest whales can buy it.

No max gear = no incentive to buy
Too expensive = no incentive to buy

That’s 2 reasons that would deter customers. Also, a lot of DPS players fool themselves in thinking they just need the gear to get into a +20 group so they can get max level rewards without paying for it or learning mechanics. A +26 would be impossible and it would be even easier to tell if someone is boosted or not.

Oh right, i forgot about that.

There are currently also +16 boosts, because of the crafting stuff. Boosting will just go on and on. You will stop nothing. It will just stay on the levels that are boostable.

If one player gets bonus valor, the entire party gets bonus valor which incentivizes higher geared/scored players to look for +2/+14/+19 keys to do instead of their own keys, making it so players that are really around that level have a hard time going into the dungeon because there will always be a much better queueing into that key.

Think of it like this, all +20 keys done gives 2720 score, but players doing +20 keys won’t invite a 2650 player because there will always be way better scored players queueing.

I didn’t know that, but it’s probably replaced with another upgrade system.

Two types of boosting going on currently, gold boosting and massively overgeared/higher scored players joining lower keys to farm valor, this is aimed at the latter and to incentivize players playing with others around their own score.

Let’s not derail thread about whining about M+ rewards.

You teach players to play at low M+ keys when they get to play with players with their own skillsets, if I a warrior at 2650 rio and 416 ilvl join a +17 key, I will delete every trash pack in less than 10-20 secs, I will also make most boss fights sub 2 mins, sometimes sub 1 min, players won’t learn anything.

But when players actually get to experience the dungeon and have to deal with mechanics, they will learn.

It’s a fiesta because superbly over geared players join low keys for many different reasons, which is what my suggestion tries to solve.

Yeah, but as of 10.1 they have no reason to go in there whatsoever because the replacement of Valor is tiered. So if you get a 10/13 upgrade level item, you just straight up can’t use a +2 to upgrade it. That’s it.

Yes indeed. Like I said, read it!
Elahri already shared it.

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