You right. So i want to try and fix this
It is just fair that people who push keys and be able to finish higher keys to also get rewarded for that in the vault. You want a +18 rewards a mythic track piece when you time it with 1 second in time, but take the reward from someone who does the same dungeon on +25 but 1 second over the timer. I wonder which players should be rewarded more of these 2 runs. To me your idea is not logical and fair at all.
Yes, because i answered somewhere with “100%”. And you simply disagree. That is fine, but we can not get to an agreement on this. For you a succeeded key is a timed key, for me it is a finished key. So be it.
I got your point. Thx for discussing
There’s nothing to fix. You’re looking for someone else to solve a problem that you and the other players have created by going into group content together without being clear about your expectations up front.
If you only want to do timed keys (or abandon), only sign up for keys that are listed as timed, or only list your own that way.
I don’t think you’ve got what i tried to discuss here. I see the problem in the system that rewards people for basically failing to complete the task they took. Don’t you meet that people yourself, that are just trying to get into a higher key that they can do to get boosted by others? They don’t care about their impact in dungeon, they just praying that some big ILVL guys will do everything solo and they will get their item for free. Of course, there’s a big chance that this group won’t succeed in timing, but who cares if “I still gonna get my precious high tier item”?
Occasionally, but I don’t need to accept them into my own keys. If I find I’ve applied to a key where one person is clearly being boosted, I can choose to stay or not before the key goes in. (And whether I do or not largely depends on the rest of the group. It’s easy enough for 4 geared characters to 4-man anything up to +20.)
Dont forget M+ers having to PuG the stupid raid to get OP trinkets and weapons.
Which by the way exist only to give “reasons” to raid instead if just spam M+.
Then your idea gets more sense. If Blizzard will split this 2 activities, then people at least won’t be forced to do what they don’t want to. But i’m afraid, developers are happy with the current situation. By splitting, players wouldn’t need to spend that much time in WoW
Oh but it gets so much better than that. If you get into class balance, many issues that talents, tiersets, or playstiles are OP or unviable is because it would have catastrophic implications for raiding/M+.
Take the 4p resto shaman: It literally spreads Riptides like a disease. If you buff it such that its useful in M+, you become god-mode unstoppable in Raid. OR, (the case today) if you make it viable in Raid its near useless in M+.
People ask why shaman does not have a raid buff. Il tell you why: Because if we had one, ON TOP of the utility we already have it would make us instant OP in M+. Like an Aug in S2.
And the list goes on. With individual talents even.
Nobody does this and its not a problem. People will never do this because it will be considered a waste of time.
~18 are roughly at heroic gear, and thats completly fine. The only problem is that m+ is way better at gearing up people than raiding is, compared to vanila, highest gear was from “normal” raiding.
yea I don’t know, I have never ever spend more than 1h in a dungeon. Most people call it quits after 20+ death already and they see the timer is gone anyways.
I wondering the same, because I played alot more dungeons than you in this season and I have never seen it even once. Not even in the beginning of the season.
you will get experience which groups you should apply for and which you shouldn’t.
Watch the leaders RIO and xp. If he is already bad, high chances that he will inv terrible people because no good players will apply to his key.
And also once you joined a party, you can see the RIO of everyone as well and can still leave. Nowadays you see a lot of “friend carries” in 18s which you can stop very quickly by a) 1 person has like 500-600k HP b) 1 person has 1k rio
If you are not up to carrying dead weight because you know that you are capable of it, just leave.
you don’t need to clear 9/9 to get mythic track items. Most guilds were stuck on tindral and fyrakk. many of the other bosses were downed very quickly to farm gear.
most of the myth gear is coming from the vault by this time in the season.
I was referring to season start where you cannot get myth track gear from M+ as you can get only 1 piece per week, while myth raiding could give you more pcs on top of it. So yes if you do mythic raiding you get faster myth track items than if you only do HC or M+ because you are limited to 1 pcs per vault.
Is it perfect? nope.
hence I said it is easy if people in the group owning a keyboard. It has been like this since Naxx were I was still raiding. The raids are not hard at all; the mechanics are always the same and very simple but you always have people that need to wipe 500 times before they even understand “oh what you cant stand it that?”. One reason I stopped raiding because you need too many people and if you actually want to play the game you have to invite sooner or later people as there are not enough players showing up in queue.
That is also why M+ is more popular. More responsibility on a player, easy to spot who is terrible and you can move on much easier 
also groups assemble much faster as more players are available.
Hero track gear only drops from +17 and onward.
In this season +17s are really under tuned so that it does feel free. previous seasons max items were harder to get, even for the max vault ilvl you had to clear 20s which also were harder than 20s now. Blizz thought thats too much, so they changed it.
The vault generally is terrible design. You can get hero track items in the vault by doing +8 keys, which I did with my ilvl 420 tank and zoomed through it in 10 mins.
while farming 18s for vault and hero gear is not incredible hard, it is very tedious and takes a lot of time. Not only the items you need have low drop chance, but the amount of crests you need is staggering. It will take way over 100 dungeons to get geared.
It is more of a grind rather than a challenge, but so is HC raiding.
it took pvp nearly 19 years to achieve that.
don’t hold your breath
Ehm, no, not really needed in 18’s… not even in 22’s. This is something to optimize I think ones you get to 25+
You go ahead and do that, I don’t think anyone does this 
Who is getting all these items, have you actually looked at the stats?
21.867.900 timed runs
24.171.440 runs in total…
So for every 10 dungeons run, roughly, there’s 1 untimed… (not counting runs that don’t finish, as they won’t matter as that doesn’t reward anything)
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I don’t think that this proofs me wrong. Isn’t all level keys have the same time limit (30-34mins)? If yes, then you should keep in mind, that it’s pretty hard to fail the low-level keys, and most of those fails are done in higher levels.
By the way, where can i check this stats?
In 100% does, and you’re right, the higher you go the more fails, so you know, in the high keys where people don’t need gear ect there is the most fails …
As to where you can find it, raider.io
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To be fair no, you are legit not playing the same game. The disparity between players doing m+ is even greater than heroic with mythic raiders.
Most of the “problems” you are describing are not present for the top of the curve with m+. And for the more casual crowd that those “problems” are present, they do not hinder their progression in a meaningful way.
Example being the gear progression you are describing. For most people that play this game at a semi serious level, they are doing 18-20 keys in the first week, and have AotC by the 2nd-3rd.
That means that the “real” gearing is not done in keys/hc, but is timegated by the crests and the great vault (which is mostly the same with raid and m+).
Also a final point you made:
WoW outside of arena, NEVER needed you to be good at the game to get gear. Only in arena your skill was correlated to the gear received. On all other form of content, gear was given with gringing/rng.
Wdym those groups won’t succeed?
Anyone that wants to play an alt/help a friend just has to make a +18 group and invite the safe bet people that want to do a weekly. In fact those are the groups that I try to join the most.
Those are the easiest runs, because those people know how to make a group, and that what people like me want (a fast easy run). Sure one of the 4 people does not contribute almost anything to the key apart from the dungeons, but that is enough. I am 100% on board trading my “services” in boosting someone if I get a quick weekly 3 chest.
This. Although I tend to go for +20 rather than +18.
Remove penalthy ingame!
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