End of dungeon drops are now capped at Hero 1/6, down from current 2/6. Myth track gear has 2 extra levels and vault is capped at 1/6, down from 2/4 in current season. This means you need 100 timed runs to upgrade all your Myth track items to max, which equates to 8 runs pr week over a 3 month period.
So we are getting Warbands to make the expansion alt friendly, but at the same time they are doubling the grind you need to do on your main… One step forward, two steps back.
So if you had to run 1000 keys, it’s still not a grind?
It was already borderline too much of a crest grind this season. Even top M+ players who basically play WoW for a living complained this season about the ridiculous crest grind. When Blizzards response is to almost double the amount of crests needed, I personally think the game turns into a chore. Between this and the tank nerfs, my initial excitement for the expansion is pretty much gone. Sadly, I was too late in cancelling my 6 month sub before it renewed, but I’m still considering to just skip season 1 and see if Blizzard reverts some of their bad decisions.
The hero track nerf was reverted, but the 2 extra levels on myth track is still there so either way it takes longer to upgrade your gear compared to now.
Are you seriously just picking on the word “grind” here? What if it were framed as “progression is too now too slow, it used to have better pacing”?
I would love you to give me a breakdown how does it require 1000 keys to reach 6/6 Myth in every slot.
Hate to be that guy, but… yes. Yes, it does. From a practical point of view, progression should be tuned so that you reach full gear 2-3 weeks before end of season, with reasonable game time (1-4 M+ runs a week).
I didn’t say that it takes a 1000 keys. I was asking the difference between a grind and what you define as end game progression? 100 runs to fully upgrade your character is too much in my opinion, and sucks the fun out of the game. Blizzard has even stated that they want to respect players time, so why do they keep increasing the time needed to be “done” with a character for the season?
Then you should have said that. Instead, you were giving the impression that the example you gave is comparable to the current situation.
I define end game a progression by the fact that it can only be progressed by end game content (normal+ raid and M0/M+), so basically no Heroic dungeons, LFR, world quests or reputation.
Grind is the opposite. It would be progression that you progress by doing the above. Still the only reason to call it a grind if this is mandatory to do with regards end game progression. For example Artifact/Azerite power and Corruption cloak.
To the best of my knowledge, only grind in DF was the legendary enchant and Axe. You are welcome to correct me.
And I honestly respect your opinion. My views on how fast must characters be geared is just… my views.
Still, why is that? Why do you think that 100 runs are too much to reach 6/6 Myth gear? We are talking about M+, an infinitely scaling system. You can literally always do challenging content, no matter your current gear.
I don’t know that. The only thing I care about is catch up gear for each season. S2 catch up was ridiculous, you could deck out a player in chamption 1 (almost only crafted) gear in 90 minutes. Now it is much slower, but still not too bad. I hope they don’t make it even longer in TWW S1.
No, it shouldn’t. It should be tuned so that people can take a few weeks break between seasons without it costing them anything. Other MMOs don’t fear loss of money if they don’t artificially extend the grind for the entire season because they trust their product to keep players engaged. That Blizzard artificially slows progression doesn’t say much for their confidence in their own product.
The disconnect between words and actions is huge. I don’t know why they think saying it will make people believe it when all the evidence is against them.
Hopefully not. The best time in M+ is when you can push the highest and progress there. Only being able to do 2-3 weeks of that would make me quit the game.
Also it is quite healthy to sometimes skip a week because whatever (often real life) reason. Needing to play the whole season every week is not desireable.
Also death of alts with your idea.
For the record; this does not mean i want to be done with gearing after 2 weeks either.
You are of course entitled to your opinion, and if WoW was designed around only having a single character, that makes sense. But it’s not, and Blizzard has said on multiple occasion they know most people like to play alts, and they want to make changes to accommodate that. Warbands are one of the major features of the expansion, and it’s clearly designed around playing alts more.
So they acknowledge that and even make alt friendliness a big selling point of the expansion, and then 3 weeks before release they implement a change that almost doubles the required time investment to get the same results as before. That’s what frustrates me.
And I never said that you would have to. You can skip 2-3 weeks and catch up by unlocking 3+ spots in the vault for a week or two. Easy peasy.
That… sounds like a you problem, apologies for being so blunt. I understand that you don’t want a hand-out, but the fact is, your expectation of “I have reached +14s with my main, therfore I am entitled to be able to do +14 with all 10 of my other characters” is simply bonkers. I know you didn’t say it nor you would think this extreme, but the mentality is the same.
No, this does not kill alts. Well, not all alts. Alts of people who are only willing to do +14s and don’t want to dedicate a massive amount of time progressing their alts? Yes, those will be goooone.
All the other alts will be just fine.
In DF it was absurd that in 2 weeks you could be full 6/6 hero. Some extra time to gear up is actually healthy for the progression in M+.
As for alts, what makes thing “alt unfriendly” is not that. Its how you transfer the progress from your main to your alt. And currently, there is no way to do so.
But it has nothing to do with the hero track grind.
The mentality is not the same. I am fine with a couple months gearing. Not with 5 months. And then i am also not talking about min maxed. It is fine to be able to small min max, for example with sockets or a hero piece that can upgrade by vault to mythic track for a longer time. But the majority of your gear should be done in a month or 2, imo.
I agree with this. One or two months is a nice number :
You would spend half of a season gearing, and the other half actually trying to do something with that maxed out gear. Assuming seasons last for about 3 to 4 months of course.
it is simple, if gearing takes forever, the seasons should also be longer.
I mean currently it is already impossible to even fully myth gear without myth raiding.
how many slots do we have? 18?
so 18 weeks of vault and if tuned heavily you will mostly miss at least 2 weeks of myth track gear and the last week is useless as well. basically you need 21 weeks with no doubles or useless gear to be in full mythic gear
dont even have any time to play with max gear at all, if you ever get it.
I mran i came from games where it took a year to even reach max level and max gear took you years or maybe never but it also didnt reset your stuff every 3-4 month