If you have a problem with how easy it is to get gear in one mode or the other, just adjust the difficulty? This isn’t some massively complicated issue, you can just adjust it accordingly based on how players are earning their gear.
Why make someone gear up two times?
So to address the main arguments being made in the thread:
“It is good that it is separate because i don’t like doing PVP to get PVE gear or vice versa”
Then don’t do PVP to get PVE gear? The whole point is to create a situation whereby you can freely move between modes and keep your progress. If there is a discrepancy between the difficulty? Adjust it.
“PVPers and PVEers often don’t mix”
I believe this to be completely false; one of the reasons people may choose one or the other, is that they don’t like the idea of having to start from scratch, so they just commit to one mode. The actual system encourages separation. There is literally no good reason to keep people separate, it can only benefit if people more freely explore other modes.
“PVP gearing is good because you don’t need to upgrade it”
Right, this doesn’t counteract having a universal set. I already explained that you can just have all gear scale up in queued PVP. You can create a sense of progression by having certain levels of gear only scaling up to specific brackets; like the current difference between honor and conquest gear.
I believe this addresses all the core arguments made. Can i just say, to the people who seem to want to create barriers between people who play different modes; i would reflect on why you think that is good. I think that is a terrible idea, and there is no good reason for it as far as i can tell. In an MMO, surely you’d want all types of players to mingle IF they choose to. Why try to box people off needlessly?
Not possible, since pvp gear is gated by rating, and gives a huge advantage start of season. This happened last time it was same level as pve gear (SL season 1).
There was a huge backlash by almost everyone, since pve players that did not pvp were left behind, and many classes could not get their bis trinket/weapons (mages as an example) if they did not pvp. Pvp players were also complaining due to the heavy influx of boosters that were ruining rated arenas.
Contrary to what you believe, truth is that they do not mix.
Both wow pve and pvp need a completely different skill set and have a huge barrier to entry, people do not enjoy HAVING to grind pvp/pve if they wanna do the opposite mode (because they have bis from a specific game mode).
So yeah, sorry to burst your bubble, but regardless of any arguments you have, we already know how this story turned out, and the system we have is the result.
I mean we already have this with Mythic Raiding, so might as well also have this with PvP, why not. We all play the same game with the same controls in the end. If you wanna be the best player and wanna belong to the 0.1%, maybe you need to know how to control your character and play pvp a bit For the others it’s nice to be able to switch between content without losing too much progress. I guess when Blizzard makes Addons unnecessary, it won’t be a big deal
I argue that PvP is such a different game to PvE that it warrants its own gear.
And the raider/M+ devide depends on class tuning. The more unique each class is, the stronger the divide will be.
So blizzard is in a strange situation. Either they normalize and homogenize classes. OR… they start divorcing fully or partially different aspects of PvE.
Taking gear incentive away from PvE is taking away the incentive to play the game for a lot of people.
Power progression is a thing people play the game for, right now that happens through gear, if you’re going to argue for gear not to matter in pve then sure but there must always be a Lich King (=power progression system) and I would much rather have gear then ring menus and secondary or even tertiary talent trees fed by some farmable currency
The thing is if you’re a casual player that just takes whatever gear is thrown their way you wouldn’t care if there was no separation. But wow has been mad to be competitive. Endless scaling of m+, MDI, incorporating scores, as well as the competitive nature of rated pvp, all dictate that there needs to be a separation.
In theory you could only force the separation in rated pvp and m+ and raids, and let unrated pvp, open world and casual dungeons be a place where all gear works equally. But then there would be people asking why separate here and not there and that’s a whole other headache for Blizzard.
Forced to PvE to PvP ,
Forced to PvP to PvE .
What bs .
Some people still live in 2005 .
You have new systems in place that already solve this problem .
Just uncap PvP gear so that you can pump as much crests in it as you can . Crests come from PvE . So if you want to PvE with this gear , you will still have to do it .
Hell Add a valor vendor while your at it , so that we finally do away with trash RNG .
Than uncap the Lacquer item bellow and make it useable on all pieces (Minus trinkets / special effects , although I honestly don’t care about that either .) Make it a gem , you can socket and un-socket it , so you don’t waste conquest on it . Make it purchasable on the AH , so that PvPers can make gold while playing , and PvErs can jump in the game , by just buying , without being complete underdogs .
There . Now players can have 1 set useable for everything . The progression path they chose to get the gear from is entirely up to them .
Is that so hard or what ?
This separation of PvP and PvE is killing PvP , because it is treated like some castle on the hill separate mode , instead of a fun side activity . It is hard to jump in it , It has different rules , it has different gear , so no-one tries it .
PvP in this game started , because people took their PvE gear and PvE skills and went to pwn some PvE newbs , for fun . Until we go back to a time like that , PvP will stay as dead as it is now .
No… That is such an absurd idea in an MMORPG… I get there is a niche of people who think racing in PVE is serious. Guys, it isn’t; we’re playing an RPG with RNG… It never will be serious. RPGs are supposed to be about playing a role before competition; that doesn’t mean the game can’t have competition; it should simply be a secondary consideration to roleplaying game elements.
Trying to make wow some kind of e-sport is what ultimately hurts this game more than anything else; because it is like trying to make a racing game into an FPS… It can’t even work without massive class homogeny (and never will truly work because it is an RPG).
When you argue for “serious competition”, you are arguing for the thing that has been eating away at the heart of the game for a long time now.
Again, i’m not saying the game can’t have challenge. It SHOULD have challenge; otherwise it is boring, but my god… It isn’t a serious competition guys… It is a videogame in the RPG genre…
Also, to the person saying gear would be gated behind rating. I’ve always found the rating system to be really stupid, and it doesn’t belong in an RPG either; i’d implement a new PVP gearing system not based on rating. It is just another thing that hurts the game unnecessarily by telling people a lie about this game being seriously competitive.
Here is what i ask people:
Do you want your hunter to feel more like a hunter? Or would you prefer it was better balanced?
Do you want your rogue to feel more like an assassin/ninja/thief? Or would you prefer it was better balanced?
I would say most people want the class to feel more unique; that they want it to play more like the role it claims to be; yet, we get the opposite… Why? “Serious” competition.
If this is the reason we’re keeping our gear separate, it is a very silly one that is counter productive to the heart of the game. This is something FF understands quite well by the way.
The best format and i highly enjoyed was just Tbc-Wotlk
Specific items that outshine by playing on each mode but providing special benefits while playing in that specific zone -area like bgs or raids.
Remove the upgrade system since is a pretty bad design that offer a delusion of becoming stronger
15 year we didn’t had this 1/8 items . You do the content you get the items …it’s pretty dumb getting the items and you need to play 4-8 hours to upgrade the already owned items .
I enjoyed armor penetration/spell and resilience . The game was amazing (perhaps was bad for some specific people)
Look. There are key levels above a +10 you know? And between a +10 and a +22 (max level done) there are plenty of key levels to play.
“Competitive” PvE dosent mean a competition. It only means that your objective is to push for higher difficulties. Which can be a +12 for some players, a +15 for others of a +22 for a very select few.
None of that qualifies at an e-sports.
And if you are so sure that it’s that easy… I invite you to time a +15 yourself. Lets see that Raider IO page of yours.
And FYI there is also a thing called “competitive” PvP. And it also has nothing to do with competing for gladiator title in the highest possible levels. Or anything related to e-sports.
PROFESSIONAL is the word you are looking for when you talk about e-sports. Because its those players job to play at those levels.
“Competitive” is a word used pretty much exclusively when you’re competing against another person.
If you’re suggesting that you’re competing against the PVE, that is not the modern day usage of the word “competitive” in this context.
You mean “challenging”, not competitive.
Also, you’re trying to suggest i could not play at this level? That has nothing to do with the argument, but i’ve done mage towers and such, i’ve completed games like Elden Ring on my own etc… I’m pretty sure i can handle it; the reason i never play mythic or raid is because i generally don’t like playing with other people; but that is just personal preference.
All PVE is just paying attention, communication, a basic understanding of your class and rotation and having the correct gear. That may sound reductive, but it really is 90% paying attention. If you can pay attention, and you have an understanding of a boss’s mechanics, you can pretty much do any PVE on the game.
The point i was responding to, is that they suggested just going against PVE alone was competitive; not the inclusion of other people’s times.
““Competitive” PvE dosent mean a competition. It only means that your objective is to push for higher difficulties. Which can be a +12 for some players, a +15 for others of a +22 for a very select few.”
For the others it’s nice to be able to switch between content without losing too much progress. I guess when Blizzard makes Addons unnecessary, it won’t be a big deal