Yeah. It makes it very hard to be a jack of all trades because even if you do have decent ilvl on 5 characters, chances of you actually fully understanding them all and being good with them are rather slim.
I don’t mind skill expression, but the gulf between “just starting” and “total expert” is extremely wide in DF/TWW, and it’s reflected in not just the talents but also the punishing dungeons that oneshot us if we miss an interrupt or defensive.
Guess only Blizzard really know how popular it all is. Maybe I’m just a slow old goat and everyone else is loving the complexity
Thinking back on the simple talents we used to have, makes me sick to my stomach. They were extremely bad, to the point where we might as well not have them.
The new talents give us a lot more choices, which I love.
I can’t say I recall that. The game definitely got a lot of criticism, also with regards to its systems design, but I can’t say I recall much of any of it being because it didn’t have a talent tree like Diablo II – outside of a nostalgic uproar.
99.9% of the people wanted a build up on d2 that included a talent tree, similar loot systems etc. what we got was complete trash unfortunately.
but thats a different topic
but generally i dont agree that d3 was a good take on talents.
items decided which talents you had to take and d4 is build on the same garbage basically.
tier sets in dragonflight almost followed the same idea and i dont recall people liked the tier sets being tied to certain talents e.g. sundering for or primordial wave for enhance
I think that first became true in Reaper of Souls after Blizzard emphasized the set items and their bonuses. Initial Diablo III was very open to customization because the items didn’t impact the gameplay very much. So outside of individual class balance, players actually had a plethora of options to customize and the freedom to do it. That was a good design, I think.
Fair be it if you think otherwise.
I mean, in a game where one talent is usually a LOT better than the other, but it’s hard work figuring out WHY… I can’t blame people for reading up and taking expert opinions rather than trying to form their own.
Going through all the 5% to this, procs on that, dots from this, hots from that, chance for something to happen when you something, effects after another effect ends… I suspect most players do not want to have to plot all that out manually and figure out the best talents for themselves. Idk why everything has to be so obfuscated.
Trees are very hard for the average folk to understand and analyze to make easily an informed decision on their own, so people just copy cookie-cutter builds, establishing a meta
Player complain that straying away from the above meta hurts their performance and therefore they do not feel like having a choice in picking talents
Developers follow that feedback and balance trees so that the difference between “meta” and “non-meta” layouts are minimised
Trees therefore become even harder for the average folk to analyze, so people copy cookie-cutter builds, which means we’re back at the start.
You could have only 2 options, with one being “You instantly defeat everything” and the other “Nothing happens”, and people would still use a guide.
If you can change 5 talent points and it will be barely noticeable for your gameplay — that talent system is just bad.
Every click should be important and affect the way you playing.
What is not talked about much is that in DF they stopped balancing the modifiers, instead opting to just tuning the individual spells instead. There are so many modifiers in this game now because of this talent system that it would take a lot of work to balance so the laziest way out of it has been chosen and instead of natural smooth scaling – each class on its own trajectory – they need to do blanket buffs and nerfs.
I was hoping that for TWW they would sort this out but I guess it is such a big mess that they cannot be bothered
That is definitely a problem. Even though the removal of borrowed power system should simplify the calculation, the new talent trees complicated it again.
They were extremely bad, to the point where we might as well not have them.
