The new maps in newer expansions feel crowded. Sometimes they lack any “natural” geography (shaped by natural forces), and feel like a maze. Also, not every bit of a map needs to have a game purpose, it can be there just for worldbuilding.
In game space is free, why not just add more space, and a little “natural geography” sense, so landmarks can be recognized, and the map memorized. Else I personally feel like in a maze, it does not matter where I am, it’s “the same” - convoluted place, that is different from other places, still I can’t place it on the map from memory or really remember how I got there. This does not help with worldbuilding - the feeling of the fantasy world.
Also, there are too many flight paths.
Ok, that was my 2c.
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Compare Bethesda games to Yakuza map layout. Do you prefer a compact living world or an ocean with the depth of a puddle? People who prefer the later are drawn to games like the ones Bethesda or Ubisoft makes because time is endless.
If everything was scaled 1:1 it’d take hours to do a roundtrip around Azeroth on a flying month. If that’s a yes for you then WoW isnt for you. Or are you saying you want to waste 2hrs flying across a zone?
I’ve actually seen people say they want this quite a lot.
Hell, i have a friend who unironically wishes the game was about 100 times the size it is now. He said he thinks it should take about a week of real time to travel from the top of Winterspring to Silithus.
WoW is a teampark in a sandbox not the other way around. Tell your friend to do a roundtrip of this planet on foot and then ask him how it went.
Also ask your friend how he’s supposed to play a game sized 1:1 since time is obviously finite and infinite at the same time, matter and man hours spawns from the ether and everything else that works on that kind of logic?
If that zone is filled with content?
Yes
But in this case the flight paths would be probably replaced by an instant portal-network
Skyrim’s map is also too dense.
A far less dense map that does what the OP describes can be found in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. Now that’s a good map.
Good/bad is subjectable. Just because someone doesn’t understand supply and demand or logistics doesn’t mean they understand either. A galaxy brain complains that something is too small because in their mind anything can be made instantly with no associated cost WHATSOEVER. This is the type who thinks farm animals live in supermarkets or that the moon is made of cheese.
Notice how more and more games that are out of ideas are going open world with the whole idea that if you waste enough time in said game, sunken cost fallacy will kick in. And then the devs can cash in way more at the expense of the player who doesn’t know any better.
Even trash games like the ones made of Bethesda figured this out decades ago. Even WoW this did through time gating like obnoxious mobs, poor/nonexistent gear scaling, and travel time because vanilla was one huge buggy and unfinished mess. All for that precious sub.
Why let a customer waste 60 days of playtime when you can let them experience the same thing over a span of 600 days instead. Now that is capitalism at its finest. Milking the customer like heated seats or air bags on a subscription. Or better yet; pay every time you turn the damn thing on.
WoW was designed to waste as much time as possible on just travel time alone whereas a game like FFXIV is quite the opposite having teleportation crystals in every major zone. You can’t have just realism or just fantasy, but you can have a mix of both. Having just either it just a huge downgrade on the playerbase. No sane person wants to spend their limited time on a LARPers logic of what is grounded fantasy or spend 42 years to travel from A to B unless they happen to be…
I agree. There doesn’t need to be a pack of mobs every 20 yards.
I used to be that with some careful steering you could dodge a lot of fights. Now you need Stealth to avoid most fights.
I leveled a Lightforged in Azuremyst / Bloodmyst a few years ago and the forest there felt so much more natural than even Ardenweald. You could see trees into the distance and there were deer wandering around. You could stop and look around without having to fight mobs and fight the landscape.
I think the newer landscapes from around WoD are Blizzard punishing us for wanting to be able to fly. So they ground us in horrible terrain for a year then let us fly when they think we’ve been punished enough.
Don’t agree with this in DF at any rate. I need them to get around as I’m so bad at Dragon riding and the world is designed with Dragon riding in mind, it’s so big with obstacles everywhere. I’m not sure I could ride a ground mount from Obsidian Trhone to Iskaar.
If we had terrain like we had in TBC or Wrath then I’d probably be fine with fewer flightpoints.
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Do you practise writing this gibberish? Half of each of your posts have points which are relevant to the discussion but dressed up in illogical and nonsensical language… the other half is bs which goes off at so many different tangents. It’s not just this thread it’s almost every post of yours, your write like a badly trained AI bot told to act pretentiously.
If you compare classic& bc against Wotlk abd following, it getting acutely better.
Classic abd tvc were only flat landscapes with rather low amount if geography abd nany nap edfrs were just high mountain rages.
While in cata they work in maps with heights and depths, look at hyal for example ir certain Legion maps.
For me this all really comes together when I get regular flying. I finally make the connection exactly where things are when I can explore from above. I haven’t been able to do it with Dragon Riding.
You do know why useful idiots exist yes? Well think again. This place is one huge ELI5 melting pot because people can’t think for themselves or give it a second though.
Just like you.
I loathe every single statement you made, but they are all opinions.
I don’t think travelling = wasting time. You can do lots of great stuff with that.
I don’t think it has anything to do with galaxy brains or economics, I’m super confused about that.
I don’t think Bethesda makes bad games - Skyrim and Morrowind are on my favourites list, and so is DOOM and DOOM Eternal.
WoW does sometimes attempt to waste your time and it is frustrating whenever it does, but I don’t agree that FF14 is better for removing travelling. It’s just different emphasis. I remove or avoid fast travel in the open world games that I like.
I agree.
There used to be an art to getting around the world. Sometimes my friend would ask me what the best way to get to Dire Maul or Stratholme would be. I’d have to consider and suggest things like Portal to Stormwind, head to Northrend Dalaran, use portal to Caverns of Time and fly to Dire Maul. Or even back when there were boats you’d suggest portal to Ironforge, Flight Master to Menethil Habour, Boat to Auberdine run to X.
They’ve all been rationalised into fewer portal locations now Boats are almost all gone.
The art has been removed.
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And it anchors you to the world. “I am in Stranglethorn Vale, stuck in the jungle. Gotta make my way out…”
It’s way better imo
Blizzard managemnt doesnt wont ever build anything what isnt usable for player retantion so build anything just for sake of world building isnt desirable.
“Hello raid leader, I’m on my way to the raid that’s on Monday. Yes I know it’s Tuesday but I gotta make it in time.”
“Hello work, I need to call in sick. I have to get to the raid in wow.”
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i don’t think the main map design of dragon isles was bad . but forbidden reach felt kinda stacked and zaralek caverns is probably the worst map in the game . i think exploring an already existing over time map is better than adding new side maps
When did I say that?
I just want maps that are easier to memorize and relate to.
Not a maze that is hard to relate to because irl we got nothing similar. The 3D Maze should be in it’s special location, not everywhere in every zone.
Agreed.
Albeit, to be fair to Dragon Isles, the zones fit the expansion theme i.e. Dragonriding.
When the redesign happening, do hope they take into consideration that creating an immersive atmosphere is key.