Marksmanship Hunter Stun

I was really looking forward to play MM hunter in 8.1, but even with the changes that came with 8.1, I still think its not as good as SV, or even BM.

I played MM hunter a lot, casually, a little bit of ranked and skirmish arenas, a little bit of rated BGs, but mostly casual BGs.

I also did some research, but there are almost no MM hunters in arena ladders. They are mostly survival, rarely BM.

After a while, even though it does fine in battlegrounds, there is a reason I think it isnt played competitively. Its because we are a ranged spec that relies or big casts and doesnt have a stun. How are the other casters doing on that subject?

We can easily be put out of line of sight, we rely too much on others to immobilize/stun the targets for us to be able to deal damage, especially in arenas. But this also goes for places like WSG or AB, where you are trying to kill the enemy flagger or the people defending him, or someone running inside the lumber mill or stables, stuff like that. The point is it isnt always an open field with no objects to go out of line of sight.

The stun in the other specs also work as additional interrupt that lasts however long the stun lasts. We can use bursting shot for interrupt but 1ms later the player can just cast again, plus we have to get close to use it, which MM hunters wouldnt want much.

When I specced to SV I saw that it was much more comfortable, because they had master’s call, roar of sacrifice, and intimidation. All 3 make the life much easier.

When I’m attacking a healer as SV, I have an interrupt(muzzle) and a stun. PLUS, the healers usually try to move and create space, which makes it harder to cast for them. When I’m attacking a healer from afar as MM hunter, I got interrupt(counter shot) and thats it. PLUS, he can just move a little to get out of my line of sight. Making me use much more time to follow him, or change targets.

There also is binding shot as talent, but survival hunters can also take it, so is isnt really a plus when comparing MM to SV. MM hunters can also take scatter shot as a pvp talent, but its just a disorrient and breaks on damage. Mostly used to land our traps or gain time on 1v1 situations. Also its range is shorter(half range of other abilities).

A stun would be much appreciated, to even the odds.

My suggestion would be to add a ranged stun which is learnt at a level when SV/BM hunters learn intimidation. If not, then add a pvp talent so we’ll have to give up something to get that stun. If not, remove born to be wild from our lvl 75 talents and replace it with a ranged stun, we’ll have to give up posthase or binding shot for it.

It could be something like:

Impetious Shot
1.5 seconds cast time — 1 minute CD
Fires an impetious shot at the target, stunning for 5 seconds.

Thanks for reading this long post.

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To make it worse here’s an interesting list:
Cloth classes, DPS specializations:
Affliction Warlock - Shadowfury (baseline)
Demonology Warlock - Shadowfury (baseline), Axe Toss (Felguard ability)
Destruction Warlock - Shadowfury (baseline)
Shadow Priest - Mind Bomb (talent), Psychic Horror (talent); these are mutually exclussive
Fire Mage - none*
Arcane Mage - none*
Frost Mage - none*

Leather classes, DPS specializations:
Assassination Rogue - Cheap Shot(baseline), Kidney Shot(baseline)
Subtlety Rogue - Cheap Shot(baseline), Kidney Shot(baseline)
Outlaw Rogue - Cheap Shot(baseline), Between the Eyes (baseline)
Havoc Demon Hunter - Chaos Nova (baseline), Fel Eruption (talent)
Feral Druid - Maim (baseline), Mighty Bash (talent)
Balance Druid - Mighty Bash (talent)
Windwalker Monk - Leg Sweep (baseline)

Leather classes, DPS specializations:
Elemental Shaman - Capacitor Totem (baseline), Lightning Lasso (talent, channeled) Earthfury (PvP talent, enhancing baseline ability)
Enhancement Shaman - Capacitor Totem (baseline), Sundering (talent, technically classified as incapacitating effect)

Marksmanship Hunter - none
Beast Mastery Hunter - Intimidation (baseline)
Survival Hunter - Intimidation (baseline)

Plate classes, DPS specializations:
Fury Warrior - Storm Bolt (talent)
Arms Warrior - Storm Bolt (talent)
Retribution Paladin - Hammer of Justice (baseline)
Unholy Death Knight - Gnaw (pet ability), Asphyxiate (talent), Reanimation (PvP talent)
Frost Death Knight - Asphyxiate (talent), Dead of Winter, (PvP talent, enhancing baseline ability)

  • After all these you could say mages have it worse than Marksmanship hunter, as all their specializations are missing a stun. However, they all have access to Ring of Frost which is classified as an incapacitate and as far as I know it breaks after a damage threshold - requires confirmation.
4 Likes

Thanks for the comprehensive list. I never noticed mages not having any stuns. They are also ought to cast greater pyro blasts(if fire spec) without any stuns.

I’ll have to retract my case at this point. I dont want to go into hunter vs mage thing since a class and another one cannot be compared just looking at some abilities and reading the tooltips.

I’ll just go with if mages can live with that, so can we, probably.

That is if nobody else speaks up.

MM is the fun spec where you trade all your advantages of being a hunter (pet with stun, high mobility, decent sustain) for all the disadvantages of being a caster (long cast time nuke, low damage while moving, no stun, mediocre sustain).

No wonder most people still go to BM when they need to do ranged dps as hunter.

Oh, in no way did I want to sound like mages have it worse. They have so many other tools to allow them to control their targets.

Out of top of my head I don’t think I’ve seen a single mage not picking Shimmer simply due to its double stack and it not interrupting casts when activated.

Some people were comparing MM gameplay with Destruction Warlock gameplay and saying MM should hit as hard as Destruction but Destruction does have the drawback of being interruptible outside of Unending Resolve.

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You can easily interrupt MM hunter as well by killing them. That way they won’t cast any more aimed shots.

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And this is why MM Hunter is by far the most unviable Arena spec out there !

It’s almost a joke to play arena as MM

You don’t even get to make use of trueshot lol

I was also hoping to play MM in 8.1 seeing those changes. Sadly it’s still not good enough. I honestly think the best that could happen to MM is once again being able to cast aimed shot whilst moving. This would be a better change than a 1 min cd stun

I never liked the old style of aimed shot though, the one you can cast while moving, but deals medicore dmg.

In my mind aimed shot is supposed to be a big dmg ability but you have to cast it standing still, aiming. Otherwise it doesnt feel how its supposed to feel. So I’m always agaiinst the idea making it castable while moving, but thats just me. And of course you have your own right to say otherwise.

I still want to go with the stun idea, though we wont be getting it im sure.

At the same time, in PvP, the MM damage completely pales in comparison to BM and Surv, which is almost god-like. Aimed shot does medium damage at best, but you can never pull it off, because every melee has 100% up time and CC you at any time 3+ times in a row. It’s just laughable.
Rapid Fire and Arcane/Steady shot should be renamed into Lmao Fire and Lol shot, as it does nothing but tickle people at best.

Come on its not that bad dmg-wise, at least not in random BGs.

Nuff said. That’s not actual PvP, when you can just free cast without being touched. It takes only one guy to look at you and you’re as good as dead.

Maybe Aimed Shot should be reworked to be castable while moving and have a baseline damage.
At the same time Aimed Shot should increase its damage by a percentage every 0.5 seconds or so when you stand still while casting it.
This way you are still encouraged to stand still while casting it so you benefit fully from its damage. But if your target is moving out of sight you can start moving with it and still get partial bonus.

Maybe I’ve derived from the OPs subject but I felt the need to put this out here.

Maybe yeah but if thats the case im pretty sure there will be new talents or stuff like that which makes shooting aimed shot while moving is better than waiting for the full cast time in pvp situations.

Still, using aimed shot on the move isnt the way to go in my opinion. We will just feel clunky with no big damage. (If we can cast aimed shot while moving it isnt going to make huge dmg to compensate)

I don’t think only the stun will answer to the problem, not with some more changing.

I may be agree with a talent that allow to put asleep somebody for 6 sec or a stun (that can replace Piercing shot or hunter mark beacause that not really played and that can be dispelled) but many more problem still make the MM hunter low than the BM and SV hunter, in fact it’s soo easely to interrumpt aimed shot and Rapid Fire (RF) and so your main damage is deleted ( i will be ok to understand counterspell does not work but we don’t have enought survibility while casting)

And the thing you have maybe forgotten is BM and SV is above MM hunter beacause the pet is on their baseline spell, or the MM hunter we need lone wolf to get damage or your damage gonna be very low ( LW bring 10% dps and pet bring 6,2% dps, difference of 3,8% that is huge) and is forced to play MM hunter with a pet with Mortal Wounds (-25% less healing on the target).

I think the problem is on the honor talent and the utility in RBG / Arena beacause in PvE hunter is taken to bring BL and misdirection. but in PvP none of that is usable so you got some utility pet with Roar of sacrifice and Mortal Wounds that BM and SV can get everytime but MM hunter don’t ahve pet for those talent.

And for the overall problem, Markmanship still get a huge problem on damage dealt beacause he’s the last DPS in Uldir and SV and BM is far above on the ladder for damage dealt.

And Born to be Wild can be good but not enought % to be efficient so as i said piercing shot or Hunter Mark (beacause other talent in Hunter Mark assure more than 5% and Hunter Mark can be dispelled easely )replacement can be good.

And maybe a rework on spider sting that silence instantly can be enjoyable but a stun is maybe not needed with freezing trap/scattershot/spider sting (if that gonna be instant i hope ) but maybe a better way for survibility and a buff overall of his damage

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