I do mythic plus for KSM and my vault.
The only fun part is playing with friends tbh.
There are people who love M plus though and it’s their main interest.
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I prefer dungeons like cata heroics before they got nerfed. I still chuckle when I see the guy from the deepholm dungeon taking out 2 to 3 people in the party during cata timewalk.
Which resorts into PvP boosting, which you see a lot in arena. Which makes PvP a mess facing much higher geared players at lower ratings, and as you know, PvP is gear dependent.
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When there is a demand, there will be a supply. Bfa: M+ was the main gearing path. M+ boosting was going willy nilly. So now PvP gearing has “taken the throne” and the…strings it came with it.
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Finally the monkey’s paw of WoW tokens came to a conclusion towards boosting.
We never got mythic raid ilvl from end of dungeon in M+, did we?
It was higher than heroic ilvl, but only from the weekly loot chest did you get mythic ilvl.
This is the price you pay for getting a gear vendor… Everything comes at a price
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Because PvP players also have a chance to get items from the vault.
Do you realise that there was “elite” pvp gear, which PvP players had to rebuy with conquest instead of being given to them?
I did enjoy m+ in Legion I disliked it in BFA except the last season and I am mixed on it right now.
Whether people enjoy m+ is more dependant on the dungeons and affixes id say rather than the rewards for it.
There will always be players who do content just for the carrot on the stick no matter if they find it awful or not (cough Islands).
I think some affixes are too swingy and some are just too punishing to one specific part of the playerbase. Necrotic is awful for tanks, especially blood DK cause they barely kite and their AM is selfheal. Most dps affixes like storming, volcanic and and explosive are not really felt by the dps if they mess up but by the healers.
Prideful is very restrictive on routes as well given you wan tto hit certain % treshholds at very specific points for an ideal run.
M+ was a great idea and it still is, the seasonal affix is just not enough to make the dungeons you run all the time feel fresh though, especially affixes like Prideful that actually actively push the dungeons to be more Linear and samey each time to make use of it.
Also it feels like legion dungeons were designes as dungeons first and m+ was added on, while since BFA dungeons feel designed with m+ in mind which is understandable but also makes the m+ runs an a lot more curated experience. It was designed to be cleared in a certain way making it stale quicker.
Obviously the dungeons can’t be revamped every season but the affixes should be 1 seasonal one just isnt enough to keep it fresh.
I really love m+, i enjoy tuning them one by one, but after 5 NW without a single drop i wanna hang myself…
* sighs *
a)people still enjoy m+
b)people still run m+
c)gear doesnt feel rewarding not because its not on mythic itlv only because dungeons are way overtuned compared to drops that they provide. thats why a lot of people unsubbed.
d) if m+ got nerfed by …+/- 30% accross the board then difficulty would match rewards it provides - alternatively they should revert the nerf they did just before launch of expansion - if +10 would provide 210 itlv loot then rewards would reflect the difficulty of dungeon .
For me it’s not so much about loot and I like the M+ concept overall (still has a lot of room to improve but well), I just absolutely hate the current iteration of dungeons.
I think there can be a difference between content being fun and content feeling worthwhile. I don’t run M+, but did spend a lot of time doing Visions in BfA. I found Visions to be worthwhile because of the gear and the sense of achievement getting the solo FoS, but there were certainly weeks when I found it the opposite of fun.
What the devs have found is that M+ is not much fun for some players, but if the gear is right they still find it rewarding. The same with Torghast - if it worked like Visons did with gear, there would be players like me who would find playing it worthwhile.
Obviously content like M+, Visions and Torghast are cheap to implement because you design it once and get many months of replay time. Could WoW work, from an economic point of view, if the devs spent more time making more content so that these things weren’t so repetitive? Is this a profit margin question or a financially viable question?
Profit margin. I could recall old devs leaving Blizzard saying Activision was interfering too much.
Nothing will ever match the deep dungeon dwelling of vanilla dungeons. You could choose to skip bosses, you could venture out in any direction you wanted.
They don’t care about those designs. They care about pumping out content for the bare minimum.
You cant be 100% serious on this xD
Sometimes i feel like trading timer 
for increased difficulty of the dungeon but most if not all will disagree with us because for them it destroys the core of the dungeon for them.
But isn’t the core of the mythic + actually the affixes and the very strong mobs and bosses timer feels like an unnecessary detractor to all that.
Would have liked the system to be changed at core and i have some ideas for mythic+ finder it can be only optional for those that really can’t pug or are without a guild or have no community.
I hate M+ because I don’t have a team to play with. I love raiding and I love raiding with my guild but I feel forced to do 10x14+'s every week because it MIGHT drop an upgrade for me (guild only enforces 4x14).
But honestly I wouldn’t like it with more rewards either as I always saw dungeons as part of the start of expansion/patch where you gear up before the raid is released and then dungeons become a bit less and less mandatory.
2 Likes
I remember the time when we used to do HC in TBC and WotLK just for the fun on it.
Maybe one of our goup rolled an alt, maybe we were just socializing and we just played something just to NOT run in circles on top of Orgrimmar.
One thing it was for sure unlimited, and that was TIME. No one cared it took 30min-1h to get a group up for a specific HC. We were all in Azeroth playing “outside” just like we used to play when we were kids, in the RL.
I stopped doing any PvE part the moment that my friends stopped playing WoW, and for me, that part makes like 60-70% of the fun to repeat a M+ even without loot, even if max geared.
At the same time, I’ve got the taste of PvP, and PvE being scripted and all happening mostly the same every time (if there is no RNG mechanic involved) didn’t seem attractive at all.
GL HF
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