MELEE should do MORE dmg than RANGED not less

Community General Discussion
21

Almost nobody can efficiently DPS during Massacre, including melee, and especially not on heroic because Massacre pretty much one-shots without defensives. On top of that phase 3 has absurd movement for melee and requires the entire raid to soak outside of melee range, resulting in extremely bad uptime while ranged can just DPS during most soaks.

The top specs for heroic Denathrius are still boomies, affliction locks and fire mages (like on pretty much every fight in CN), followed by melee specs that either have heavy DoTs, ranged attacks, high mobility or all of the above - assassination rogues and unholy DKs, with fury and ferals trailing behind them.

You’re either playing a sub-optimal spec for the fight or just playing sub-optimally in general. Whichever it is, the cause of the problem is you and not ranged being hard to play in CN.

2 Likes
22

Melee are least affected by movement, melee are affected by mechanics that require you to move back away from your target, which makes your uptime on the target 0% (with the exception of specs like Sin, UH, etc.). Melee shouldn’t necessarily deal more damage than ranged, but the game should be designed little bit differently. At this time, there really is no reason to even bring melee, you can have BRM and Veng tanks and fill the rest with hunters and casters and you don’t NEED anything else, as the game nowadays is all about math, and that’s the thing that should change, not melee dps.

1 Like
23

No one has disputed uptime. The OP implied only melee are affected by having to move. This is not true.

3 Likes
24

And this is absolutely true

25

There’s also mechanics that simply has no affect on melee dps, for example on mythic council the dark recital has no impact on melee dps.

26

bm hunter can shoot on the move

1 Like
27

There will always be a little bit of favoritism no matter what however,

In terms of design, melee actually has the advantage, as melee plays can actually dps and move, while most ranged classes cannot, this is why BM hunter was super popular in BFA btw since they had melee design but dpsed from ranged.

Now, the scales might tip between melee and ranged based on many variables, but the most important variables are

1- Tuning
2- Fight mechanics

If a class is tuned much higher than the rest, then naturally they’ll do more dps, and melee will naturally do more dps in a raid scenario unless point 2 comes into play.

If there are many mechanics like ( boss has a circle around them run away! ) then melee might lose dps, the difference between a pro player and a bad player comes into play here though, since good players usually move away at the very last seconds, and or utilize their class abilities to get more uptime.

Generally a melee can dps the boss while dodging mechanics and running away, they can do 100% of their dps while the boss ( or mobs ) are on the move, while most ranged cannot do that if kiting is required.

In shadowlands, it is noticable that the fights are heavily skewed in favor of ranged players, but that doesn’t automatically cancel melee players.

Add to that tuning and you get the current meta.

However, this is an MMORPG and the meta being skewed one way or the other is fine, as long as it’s not massively and overwhelmingly skewed towards one side then it should be fine.

28

This is no longer true it used to be the case but it is not anymore ranged classes has something to use always on the move it is not the optimal highest dps always but it is always something that can be used.
in the past you would be right on this.

This is just straight up false.
Bm hunter was used because 1 it did more damage or on par damage with MM and it did not have a target cap unlike MM that had a 5target cap and could not cleave so 3 or more targets was needed.

BM also got a lot of bug fixes in the patches in BFA.
So the reason BM was run was that it was good it was better then MM for most of the expansion single target and it could do uncapped aoe (the old 20 targets) and on top of that it was more fun to play then MM

29

How would that make sense? Range dps are generally proactive and have less uptime, melee dps are generally reactive and have high uptime

It makes sense for melee abilities to do less dps in general because no matter your content, Raids, M+, PvP, a melee dps will almost always have higher uptime than a range spec, not to mention in PvP with interrupts, a range dps could potentially be locked out of their primary damage school for 1/4th, in the case of facing a rogue 1/3rd of the entire game, that’s not even factoring in other CC or spell pushback

Add in not being able to cast on the move, and the uptime disparity between range and melee is gargantuan, there is a reason talents like kiljaedens cunning that allowed for casting while moving for range dps was always BiS even after several nerfs

1 Like
30

This you should be very carefull of saying as there was a time in a past expansion when blizzard made Melee do 10% more dps then ranged because people did not take melee players in to raids.

31

I am missing something as a destro lock then ?

Only if you had the right azerite and stats and corruption .
You needed in m+
3 dod
2 pi
1 rr and 50% crit to make it really shine and that was not easy to get ,

32

I am not talking the last patch of the expansion I am talking about from the start of the expansion to the end.
And BM was stronger all the way through the expansion because of factors like that and MM was the worst version that it ever was

33

Still getting the right azerite for raids and mythic + was not easy and i agree with you about MM and i have no idea why you are being so aggersive in tone like “im right your wrong” was just stateing my view .

34

It was super easy to get the right things you needed after the vendor got introduced as only a few items did not have the things you wanted (getting bis was harder but you did not need bis to do really well.)

Locks lack movement (even though you have things) and compansate with being very tanky.
but yes destro might need to pre plan movement, but it is one of very few ranged specs that does not have things to use and even then there is something to use when moving.

1 Like
35

aren’t the melee also having more survivability?

36

They had when caster had less life but more CC.

1 Like
37

Not really.

For example id say the tankiest class right now in pve content is probably mages with their shields, Iceblock, cauterize and alter time.

2 Likes
38

IMHO there should be some kind of debuff/buff to partially counteract melee unfriendliness.

For example, sludgefist, make it take 5% more damage from melee attackers and give it slow cast aura, so ranged won’t stack to get more damage. Voila, fixed.

1 Like
39

Well, they kind of do, but AMZ is stupidly strong, so everyone stacks multiple DKs.

40

Not all do.

All rogues, Feral and Survival have literally nothing and are entirely dependant on tuning. Enh to some extend can also be put on that list since windfury isnt very impactful.

And the problem with melee specs which in theory do have some utility is that their other spec counterparts have the exact same utility.

For example WW has the mystic touch debuff.
But BM and MW also have the exact same debuff. So as a WW your raidspot doesent just depend on WWs dps being decent but it also somewhat depend on MW and BM not being overtuned in their respective roles.