guess I’ll ask before I am banned… But is this really reaility? that only these meta classes can pull trough these keys? Or is it a player mindset that it is so?
I dont think certain classes should be overly stronger than others. But is this the case?
Like I am wondering… if these classes really are that buff and op compared to others… Or if its a player mindset that they are.
It is a player mindset.
For M+ it is also about the comp. So when you switch one you might want also a different on another spot since you miss certain utility. And this is obviously only min maxing needed on the highest keys.
So what do we want? As players of the m+ community.
Do we want each class to be perfectly balanced? Each tank healer and dps putting out the same DPS and damage and utility?
listen, Friend.
this is mmorpg game, you cant really compare 20 years of peoples experience, coutless tousands of hours sinked ingame to quick UNGA-BUNGA that last 40minutes or ff 20
3 buttons and ulti vs 20+ buttons mapped and ready to use in any second
there is tutorial island for new players, and ton of info
i tested it, it teach you basics well 
even better than recent mmos new world or trone and liberty
so yeah you either adapt or you know what to do otherwise ;p
allso, you wanna tell me people are more stupid nowadays ?
cause back in my days i havent got wowhead/icy veins.
i think its just a lazy zoomer with ramen frisour issue
anyways LoL this way ------>>
Wait, are you trying to say final fantasy is four buttons?
That’s an impossible quest. I think we need to see some identity back; single target, cleave, AoE. And by no means should one spec be superior in all three compared to another spec. This regardless of utilities. Utilities is a difficult subject as their value isn’t static, it’s defined by the content you’re in.
I have been campaigning for a solution to that problem.
In my mind, a “meta comp” will always exist, and perfect balance is unachievable. However, a more achievable goal is to balance classes such that more than one “meta comp” can exist simultaneously.
Basically, today what Blizzard does is compare say… a Fury Warrior with the rest of the 40 classes you can play. And of course, its impossible to balance out all 40.
But what you can do is balance out a Fury Warrior with a Monk or a Rogue. Fewer specs.
And you normalize utility. One example of “normalizing utility” would be this:
By doing this normalization you allow for the existence of more than 1 comp. Making “meta specs” go from 5 to 10 or even 15 or more depending on how many comps there are.
What they do today is more of a mystery really. They seem to have a goal in mind, but only some specs are tuned accordingly.
How does this help in M+?
Then you just get several ‘clusters’ of over- or under-performing specs. It won’t change that much for the majority of the players?
They just have to make everything much less complex. There are just too many modifiers, variables, … Less complex = easier to steer towards desired output.
Or normalized. Which was my point.
I can give you a simplified example of what I mean by this:
S4 of DF had this “meta comp” :
Mage, Aug, SP, DH tank.
Turns out that Mage gives primary stat as a raid buff. Aug shares some of that primary stat. So both specs “double down” on a raid buff. In addition, by having a full caster comp you really benefit from having a DH in your group (+5% magic damage at the time).
So a solution to the problem would be to give DH and Monks the same +5% damage (instead of magic/physical). Which would mean that you can take a DH tank OR a BM monk.
As for DPS, if you change the warriors AP to +main stat, warriors will also double down on Aug buffs. Making a mage and a warrior interchangeable.
This is what I mean by “normalization”. Which for the record is not the same as “homogenization”, which means giving everyone the same things.
That’s nice and all, it prob has some cons as well but I like the idea, but who would benefit from this most?
Lets be honest; the average group barely considers utilities (it stops quickly after TW/Heroism/BL), let alone buffs and debuffs. They won’t give a … to be very blunt.
Heck, they play in such an inefficient way that those 3% buffs won’t matter in any shape or form, they can increase the output by (let’s say) 15% by just optimizing their uptime and 10% by not dying every other mechanic.
At best this creates slightly more flexibility at the very top. And to be honest, nobody cares about those including Blizzard. It stops quickly after the current 10s.
You are absolutely right. It only matters at the top.
And nobody SHOULD care. But they do. And here is where the value of a change like this can benefit the “normal player”. If it makes sense.
Fully agreed that it doesn’t matter until you reach +12s, but the general understanding is that the meta comp will be easier to play (faster, better, stronger) than a more unaligned comp. Therefore creating the crazy meta comp request for a +5…
It can benefit the normal player, but I doubt that it will.
Currently, the ones looking upwards are pretty much forming the wrong conclusion based on publicly available data. Nothing wrong with that, by the way. I mean, we’re free to think for ourselves. No judgement cast here.
Now, we can try to change the top and what specs or comps are … capable. But first of all; there will always come a point where a specific combination of specs will have a small advantage over other comps. The content is static (level isn’t, but what’s present in the content), so the comps will always end up depending on the content…leading to the same situation just a couple levels later on. Secondly, if the average player (broadly speaking) forms a wrong conclusion based on what the top does then we are naive to think that they will start forming better conclusions by tweaking the top.
They’ll still go to [insert websites] to copy builds, watch their favorite streamer rant/praise specs, look at the absolute top and what specs are present, and do what they do.
There is simply put no solution to the meta classes or specs. It’s a human-problem, those are rarely ever solved by technical adjustments.
The only “solution” in my eyes is to stop looking at others. But that won’t happen.
I know. I prefer to accept it will happen anyways and instead change what those people see. Its a plausible solution at-least. Because changing people is impossible. Changing a system is possible. So atleast there is hope.
Yeah, but the devil is in the details.
If 1 comp is 10% more powerful than any other combination, you will see what you often see: The same colors in Raider IO, with static comps. Because it will be used in top keys, AND 5 or 6 key levels below it.
If 1 comp is 0.01% more powerful than any-other, then that wont be the case. You will have the 2/3 top runs running it, but not the rest.
Its the difference between this :
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-1/all/world/leaderboards
and this:
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-2/all/world/leaderboards
And people will copy it, that 100% guaranteed. Because people are stupid. But I prefer that they copy the “comps” of S1 than of S2 of DF (the examples I gave above).
There is no permanent META class/spec.
Blizzard’s idea of balance:
Players’ expectation of balance:
There is no bad spec, there is only bad player.