META Classes Spec-We need to talk

Im not against any spec ingame…i think its awesome we can choose whatever we want to play… But it will be nice if Blizzard will put the cards on table and tell everyone wich spec is for this Season…this content…etc best.
Recommend to new players wich is really easy to play to rotate 1M+ DPS and wich class is not recommended to not experienced players because its not meta and not easy…

In some games you have recommandation in this way.
Like in MOBA games…or other mmorpgs…where game literally tells you what to play or not if you are casual, midcore,hardcore player with few examples of level knowledge from game…

Most of time in guilds where i was people left game after first season because they was in pain and struggle with most low spec in m+ or raids and they dont even know what is current meta…ye they had fun with playing their class and spec but also frustration from that…meanwhile they hit buttons however they want and can others was just simply better with few buttons…

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I’d rather that not hand hold anymore than they already do.

Content creators already put out videos on the daily about what classes are good for M+, raiding etc.

Personally, I don’t really care about what is meta. I only care about what I enjoy while I’m playing, and I don’t really care much about M+ to get myself worked up over my class not be S tier or whatever :slight_smile:

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Or, make all specs viable and do some actual class balancing so people can play what they like and not what some youtuber says

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I don’t get it. People refuse to learn their rotation, so we need to guide them all to Retribution Paladin? Or what?

This is World of Warcraft, this game has never been known for telling you how to approach things and I don’t think it’s gonna change anytime soon.
What this game wants is for you to try stuff and see what works best for you.
I was looking for a new class to try out and I landed on Demon Hunter and boy is it a breath of fresh aired compaired to maining Feral for a long time.
Also, keep in mind that World of Warcraft has to have better and worse classes, that’s why it’s called balance.
If everyone is strong then nobody is strong and where’s the fun in that?
I’m not sure I fully understood what you wrote here but this is what I got from it.

Blizzard doesnt know that. Its the playerbase. And it has been like this since a while. Its the playerbase that finds out every single new poop, not Blizzard, that then turns into the meta.

Blizzard even admitted it that the creativity of the playerbase is one of their problems when it comes to designing stuff.

The same also applies there. LoL is a prime example in this regard. The only thing they do is nerf something to the ground if something is way beyond broken. Or they nerf something that absolutely serves no purpose and gets called out by the entire playerbase (across all ranks)

You can do +10s (and even 12s) easily with every class/spec. Anything above that is entirely irrelevant and nothing but “push to the maximum possible extent” and that will always only result in a couple few being capable of that simply because of the nature of M+.

You can clear mythic raids with every class/spec in the game as well. Yes some have it easier but you can still clear. Softnerfs and tuning also being a thing. It ultimately comes down to skill. And what most people never learned throughout the 20 years of this game alone: Your damage doesnt matter. Do the bloody mechanics. There arent many bosses that require min maxing your DPS and in most cases they get nerfed before you even reach them (this is mainly an issue for world first guilds, and also because they compete for the WF title)

Or they simply arent as good as they thought they are. Or the class/spec they are playing isnt suiting them and so on. Or they reroll every tier which then results in “jack of all trades, master of none” (ignoring the third part of the quote on purpose because it doesnt apply in environments such as this one. Not even at the very top.)

People pay WAY too much attention to Tier lists and what is “meta” yet they fail to understand them. Or even worse they see a Tier list and regard it as gospel. Prime example is the Tier list that Max puts up every season. His tier lists are regarded a massive meme and are wrong. Max even pointed this out. And yet you still have people that unironically link it and say this is the meta (while being blatantly wrong).

You know why most dungeons fail? Because people don’t kick, because people leave after a single wipe, because people just tunnel vision, because people don’t cc, because people overpull because “the pros are doing it”, because they don’t use dispells (healer AND dps), because they don’t use defensives, because they don’t know tactics or brainfart or whatever.

Raid encounters fail for the same reasons. That and trial and error. Bosses take time and wipes. Something people seemingly have forgotten. People also do mistakes even on rekills (pugs on alts as well).

Also you will NEVER have perfect balancing. You have 8 Mythic Dungeons and 8 Raid encounters who are all entirely different in their makeup so naturally this caters to some specs/classes here and others there. Statistics also don’t necessarily reflect the “true” raw data. Take Boss Damage. Assa rogue is listed high here, go figure out why. Its because Assa rogues will not attack anything but the boss (usually) and as such the boss damage will be high as the other classes (even the ones that typically deal more damage) will be busy with adds etc.

People really need to stop this meta chase mindset as well as the “its everyones fault but my own” for M+ etc.

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  1. You assume that dungeons /raids in general are being designed for specific classes and not as a dungeon first and foremost.

  2. Blizzard does not create the meta, the players in their collective (insert preferred level of intelligence from Amoeba to Einstein) do.

  3. There is no way for blizzard to reliably predict that just because they nerf a filler spell that did 0.5% of someone´s dmg by another 1% a class that was hilariously OP in content X is suddenly going to considered dog-:poo: next week.

Especially if some actual pro gamer does something superinsane with a .000000000000000001% chance of actually succeding during teh MDI the following week on a differnt class and every tom, dick and harry that thinks they’re a legit progamer FOTM rerolls and tries to do the same in +2s. :rofl:

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Pretty much this. Banning all content creators and their idiotic tierlists would do more against metas than any kind of game balancing.

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I really don’t care at all what the META class/spec is…I play my main ( this char ) because I enjoy it :+1:

More like frost mage, frostbolt icelance repeat.

Still has more buttons to press than Ret:)

But yeah, Frost Mage works too. Always the same story, in a different expansion. Hence why I cba to level this one up currently.

Sadly many people in this century fall for the influencers opinion.

They should make their own conclusion.

Its fine to have an opinion about xyz, but that doesnt mean its 100% correct, and should be followed blindly.

Every class-spec is good up to +10. I saw many “meta class-spec” players with similar gear do less dmg than “non-meta class-spec” players.

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Every Meta tier list by a Youtuber is a 1 week ban, I would laugh hard if it was implemented :rofl:

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I timed 10s as a marksman hunter post nerf so anyone can do it! X)

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you are 8/8 HC raider who timed literaly 2x +10 dungeons 3 days ago .

was it with your guild ? i bet it was with your guild :slight_smile:

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Is that bad? :f

Looks in Exile’s Reach

Classes change overtime. Sometimes some classes or speccs are harder or weaker compared to others. Sometimes it is like entire expansion, like Mages through like 3/4 Warth of the Lich King expansion or OP like Demon Hunters.

Adding another layer will only bring more confusion if anything, why?
Let’s say you rolles a paladine. You want to make damage so you go Retribution. Great. Game tells you “Ok you must do this and that in order to do massive damage” so you press buttons. Over time class got changes and previous rotation is not as good as it was and you need use another spell or switch rotation etc. So in that case a new window should appear and tell you “Hey it is new rotation, but we buffed other classes and they will do same damge or more”.

Not to mention damage, damage reduction etc. - sometimes equipment can be changed and your class will get more or less damage. Or your damage won’t change but for gear reason i.e. Destruction Warlocks will be in top tier list.

In other words, there is a lot of variables to take into consideration how to play and how to make best number in damage or healing or threat in case of tanks. Not to mention PVP.

Or they could just get rid of meta specs all together? actually make every spec competitive. They have all the data, they do a rinse and repeat cycle every single season and know the classes inside out.

There’s genuinely no reason to be this incompetent. They slapped fury warrior down 4 weeks in a row with 4 nerfs after 3 days of them being broken in raid yet FDK and other classes get to be meta for a full season.

They just need a bigger and better balancing department. Release changes quicker, use the data better. There’s absolutely no reason why they can’t have every spec pretty close in damage % in m+

Meta specs ruin the game. The game would be categorically better if they didn’t exist.

Are any specs really meta though? I am just asking…

Some classes have stronger strengths and weaknesses than others… It depends on your playstyle and what you favor for each you choose.

But should every healer tank and dps be exactly the same as each other?

Just because a WoWhead author tells you X class is the best at this or that… Is it really? Cause this Author said so?

as aug im basicly getting almost instant invites to keys i que for while higher geared / scores classes are just ignored from what i see after i join :slight_smile: . now completion of those keys is different thing - but almost everyone wants resto shamans , prot warriors / augs - so its literaly playing game on easymode.