Midnight druid changes

Classes Druid
1

Super happy with the direction both Balance and Feral is going so far based on the changes - also resto sounds super interesting.

However - I saw no mention of any defensive abilities, only removal of existing ones. (Renewal/Nature’s Vigil)
This is a huge problem - as balance, any key after +14/15 consists of a gameplay that you have to sit in bear in hopes to survive unavoidable damage whilst tons of classes have immunities or -40%/50% dmg reductions available that does not restrict them from doing damage.

Can this be looked at, please?

2 Likes
2

You really think the PvE landscape won’t change with all these ability prunes + death of addons?

Especially when they are so keen on deleting defensives from so many DPS and Healer specs?

Clearly we’re going to be moving into the dependency of the holy trinity. :thinking:

3

Can we have Tear Open Wounds back please? Also, D-Clawed Rake affecting Lunar Inspiration would be cool.
How about some CDR to abilities like Tiger’s Fury or Zerk instead of a fladt duration reduction.

4

Hopefully they’re trying to make it so healers are going to be more responsible for keeping everyone alive.

Since they seem to be combining abilities and making each button press a lot more meatier I can imagine it’ll make it easier for healers to keep people alive.

5

I was also concerned with the removal of Renewal and Nature’s Vigil. Switching to Bear Form and using Frenzied Regeneration feels clunky and should be a last resort (like Mage Ice Block or Hunter’s Aspect of the Turtle). If Feral is going to rely on Regrowth for self-sustain/recovery it will need a significant buff.

That being said, some of the Feral changes look really good. Since the Dragonflight rework, we’ve had serious weaknesses in different AoE scenarios which are being addressed:

  • Cleave - The new Apex Talent Unseen Predator is passive cleave when we cast Ferocious Bite/Tigers Fury.
  • Low Health Adds - Stacking damage buff and energy gained from mobs on death.
  • Funnel - The new Blood Spattered talent in combination with Apex Predator.
  • Burst AoE on Smaller pulls - The new 45s 5 target cooldown Frantic Frenzy looks promising.

There’s some massive quality of live improvements coming as well:

  • Reduced complexity with the removal of Bloodtalons/Adaptive Swarm/Brutal Slash.
  • Ashamane’s Guidance will make it possible to reduce Incarnation to 1min 30s which provides our cooldown usage more flexibility.
  • The Apex Talent and Rampant Ferocity no longer requiring Rip will also help us to do better AoE damage when we haven’t taken the Primal Wrath talent.

Yes it’s sad to see more of Feral’s complexity and iconic spells stripped away, but on the whole I think Ferals can be optimistic going into Midnight.

1 Like
6

There’s difference between complexity and button bloat, Wildstalker ST is a prime example.

i’m glad we finally getting rid of BT.
Brutal Slash was a decent concept for AoE but as soon as it became main ST rotation im glad to see it go aswell.

Sad to see Bees gone, they could at least make it choice node with Lunar Inspiration.

I am mostly concern about survivality, they removed both Renewal and Nature’s Vigil leaving us with talent that literally noone takes Aessina’s Renewal and still Frenzied regen is on GCD.

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7

Could someone link or list the changes ?

8

Feral defenses look like they will be problematic. Cat form is already so fragile.

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9

So, here are my two cents regarding Feral. Cautiously optimistic but …

  • New Talent: Gift of the Wild – Mark of the Wild is 100% more effective on yourself.

Nice, I will take it.

  • Heart of the Wild has been redesigned – Perform a powerful off-role ability depending on your currently active shapeshift form.
    • Bear Form: Maximum health increased by 30% for 20 seconds.
    • Cat Form: Unleash an empowered Feral Frenzy on your enemy target, dealing Physical damage and additional Bleed damage over 6 sec. Awards 5 combo points.
    • Moonkin Form: Call down waves of empowered falling stars upon enemies within 40 yards, dealing Astral damage over 8 seconds.
    • Non-shapeshifted: Empowered Wild Growth that heals up to 5 injured allies within 30 yards of the target over 7 seconds.

This I really like. HotW was an unworthy capstone for a long time and the idea to have it cast one powerful off-spec ability is interesting. Good approach imo! But please do not leave the CD at 5 minutes…

  • Forestwalk now has 2 ranks and increases your movement speed and healing received by 8/16% when you cast Regrowth.

Nice, I guess? But you just, after a long time, trimmed a lot of unnecessary two point talents from the class tree. Why go back?

  • Matted Fur absorption increased by 140%. Now has 2 ranks, with rank 2 doubling the amount absorbed by rank 1.

See above, stop adding two point talents. Also, MF is so incredibly weak right now that even with 140% I hardly see how it will be worth it. May be the stat squish changes the calculus, what do I know…

  • Skull Bash is no longer available to Restoration Druids.

Sorry my healing fellow druids, that sucks.

  • Innervate is now a capstone in the class tree.

Hm, whatever. I don’t think Innervate is strong enough to warrant a cap stone position but meh.

  • The following talents have been removed:
    • Nature’s Vigil
    • Renewal

This concerns me greatly. First, these were nice and useful spells for Feral but hardly OP. I really, really very strongly dislike the very casual way in which useful tools get discarded. It just feels bad. I would really encourage Blizz to reconsider. Also, Feral (self-)healing takes a significant hit with this without, as I can see, any compensation. The days were Feral was king of self-heal are long, long, long gone, so you could really stop nerfing our self-heals.

I very much enjoyed helping out the healer by pressing NV in critical situations and it felt impactful. Why remove this?

  • Apex Talents: Unseen Predator
    • When you Ferocious Bite, you have a 75% chance to flicker to a nearby enemy and deliver an Unseen Attack.
      • Unseen Slash: Slash a target, dealing Physical damage and additional Bleed damage over 6 seconds. If this effect is reapplied, any remaining damage is added to the new Bleed.
      • Unseen Swipe: Swipe nearby targets, dealing Physical damage. Damage reduced beyond 5 targets.
    • Unseen Attacks increase your damage done by 8/15% for 5 seconds. Additional applications extend this effect.

I like how this leans into the stealthy cat motif for Feral. Obviously it all depends on the details and tuning but this seems like it could be fun.

  • Tiger’s Fury causes you to perform an Unseen Attack after your next 2 combo point generating attacks. Rip and Unseen Attack damage increased by 30%.

Nice.

  • New Talent: Panther’s Guile – Mastery increased by 2%.

Sure, why not.

  • New Talent: Lacerating Claws – Bleed damage increased by 10%.

More bleed damage, good.

  • New Talent: Blood Spattered – Ferocious Bite’s damage to its primary target increased by 2% for each enemy affected by your Rip, up to 10.

This sounds like it could be really useful in M+, thumbs up!

  • New Talent: Chomp – Chomp your target, causing Physical damage. Chomp can only be used when you have less than 30 Energy. 20 second cooldown.

Hm, a filler for when you are low on energy. Nice idea to give Feral buttons to press while waiting for energy to come back. I like it.

  • New Talent: Hunger for Battle – When an enemy afflicted by your Rip dies, gain 10 Energy and your damage dealt is increased by 5% for 8 seconds, stacking up to 5 times.

Also nice, a little bit like the old Predator, helping Feral when there are lots of low HP adds to kill.

  • New Talent: Focused Frenzy – Reduces the cooldown of Feral Frenzy by 15 seconds. Choice node with Frantic Frenzy.
  • Frantic Frenzy: Replaces Feral Frenzy – Flicker to 5 nearby enemies in front of you and claw all enemies around them for physical damage and additional Bleed damage over 6 seconds. 45 second cooldown. Choice node with Focused Frenzy.

Adding an AoE aspect to FF is a good idea, could be useful.

  • Sudden Ambush has been updated – Finishing moves have a 4% chance per combo point spent to guarantee your next Rake, Shred, or Swipe critically strikes all targets.
    • Developers’ notes: This retains the increased damage and extra combo points without snapshotting.

Good change, tracking SA felt unnecessarily involved. This is one of the points where I agree with Blizz’s streamlining approach.

  • Ashamane’s Guidance has been updated – Now reduces the cooldown of Incarnation: Avatar of Ashamane by 30 seconds.

Also nice, a 1min30sec major CD could help Feral if Incarn is tune strong enough.

  • Druid of the Claw: Tear Down the Mighty has been updated – No longer reduces the cooldown of Feral Frenzy. Instead, damage dealt by Chomp increased by 20%.

Okay.

  • Predatory Swiftness is now learned at level 30 (was a talent).

Good.

  • Thrash damage increased by 50% and its cooldown is now 6 seconds.

Good, Thrash’s damage was anemic for way too long. Note sure the 50% are enough but tuning can sort that out.

  • Swipe damage decreased by 20%.

Hm, why? Dont get it, particularly since we are loosing Brutal Slash (see below) but again, this is a tuning matter.

  • Omen of Clarity no longer effects Thrash, only Shred and Swipe.
    • Developers’ notes: This is to remove Moment of Clarity snapshotting for Thrash’s bleed.

Okay.

  • Savage Fury now lasts 8 seconds (was 6 seconds).

Nice, I will take it.

  • Rampant Ferocity now damages all nearby targets, not only those afflicted by Rip.

Good change, makes it easier to use. Again, streamlining done right here.

  • Saber Jaws now increases the extra damage from spending extra Energy on Ferocious Bite by 50% (was 60%). This does not affect PvP combat.

Okay, whatever :slight_smile:

  • Apex Predator triggers less often with a single Rip active and triggers more often when multiple Rips are active.
    • Developers’ notes: This is a continuing effort to make Apex Predator targeted more at area-of-effect and funnel damage scenarios. It should be good on bosses, but you might take other talents in pure single target.

Not necessarily a bad thing if Apex becomes a purely AoE talent. Don’t mind if we have sufficiently strong other ST talents.

  • Many talents have changed positions in the talent tree.

Hopefully in a good way!

  • Berserk: Heart of the Lion icon changed.

Please let it look awesome.

  • The following talents have been removed:
    • Adaptive Swarm
    • Berserk: Frenzy
    • Bloodtalons
    • Brutal Slash
    • Lion’s Strength
    • Unbridled Swarm

I feel really sad that AW and US are going. It was niche but I liked the bee-keeper playstyle. It was nice to have it as an option. This is an instance where I am not so convinced streamlining is such a good idea.

Loosing Berserk: Frenzy is fine if we get tuned right, the awful invest-four-points-to-get-a-somewhat-decent-cooldown is not something I will miss.

Loss of BT … I never understood why it was supposedly adding so much complexity (and we had a strong passive alternative for a while now) but I also don’t think I will miss it that much. Proccing BT could be awkward in some situations.

Loosing BS … also not necessarily bad, having BS as key component of our ST rotation always was a bit odd. If we get a proper Shred for ST/Swipe for AoE tuning, this will probably turn out well.

And one last comment unrelated to the patch notes: Bring back cosmetic Moonkin form for all Druid specs. Really, to this day I have not heard one single argument why this was necessary. Move the bonus to the talent, give us the form!

10

Perspective of a Feral main here.

Druid Tree and Defensives

I hate the removal of Renewal. One of the only healing spells we have without GCD. Let me choose when to heal instead of forcing this passive talent. Every Druid hates being forced into Bear Form to survive. I’m playing Druid of the Claw just to avoid going into Bear to heal with Frenzied Regeneration. Forestwalk is also an awful talent that should’ve never been added (also it was 2-point before and was trimmed down, so why go back?). Losing Nature’s Vigil is a shame - I liked contributing to healing.

I do like the buff to Matted Fur (but 2 points, really?) and the buffed version of Mark of the Wild. But still I think it’s not nearly enough and we will still be a very squishy class.

Heart of the Wild might be interesting but may force Ferals into owlweaving again (please don’t).

Feral Changes

Apex talents are… eh? Just some random passive damage.

Panther’s Guile screams ‘quick we have an empty spot in the tree and have to fill it!’ and is just lazy. Same with Lacerating Claws.

Blood Splattered looks very interesting and I look forward to trying it. I am also very glad to see Predator come back in some form (Hunger for Battle) which also solves the problem of raid adds dying too fast for our bleeds to actually do anything. Awesome talent here!

Chomp is… weird. It’s supposed to help us when we are energy starved, but we always take extra energy talents in single target. It will either be dead or must have, depending on tuning.

AOE Feral Frenzy looks very fun, I look forward to trying it! I also appreciate trying to make Incarnation viable again as it was overshadowed by Convoke this expansion.

I’m glad we don’t have to spend a point for Predatory Swiftness. Now please make it include Rebirth. The ‘friction’ argument is absurd.

I do not like the removal of Brutal Slash. It was a great button to press (with a much better sound effect). But I’m happy to see Thrash getting some love. I hope it will be a meaningful debuff for AOE instead of ‘just a bleed’.

I still despise our Hero Talent trees, refuse to play Wildstalker and play Druid of the Claw only to heal in Cat Form and have more energy.

As for the removal of Adaptive Swarm and Bloodtalons. Good riddance. Swarm felt horrible to press (send a buff and hope it eventually lands on the target you want), but was too strong not to take, even in dungeons.

I am so happy Bloodtalons are gone. I’ve hated this talent ever since I started playing Feral (and loved when Lion’s Strength was added as an alternative in Dragonflight). While it was bearable during the normal rotation on single target - it had absolutely awful interactions with our other abilities:

  • You basically ignore Bloodtalons during Berserk (your main offensive cooldown I might emphasize) as your goal is to generate as many combat points (by pressing the cheapest generator) and press as many Ferocious Bites as you can.

  • During big pulls you constantly get free Ferocious Bites from Apex Predator’s Craving so you have no time or GCDs to generate Bloodtalons.

  • Convoke eating all your Bloodtalons charges.

  • You always need to snapshot one of your bleeds to generate Bloodtalons.

  • You need a weakaura or constant memorization to keep track of which abilities you’ve already pressed.

I will not miss this talent at all.

All in all, I am very glad Feral is moving away from snapshotting and becoming an easier spec. The skill bar was way too high and resulted in low Feral population and very elitist playerbase. Also the amount of Weakauras you need to keep track of everything is ridiculous.

Good changes with some minor issues.

1 Like
11

I bet Chomp exists to make the one button rotation smoother. Maybe they were having trouble with energy starvation in leveling gear.

13

I think rogues might have better self healing in Midnight than ferals. Such a bizarre direction they are taking the spec.

1 Like
14

Brutal slash gone
Adaptive swarm gone
Bloodtalons gone

Seems like blizzard is finally taking out the garbage :slight_smile: I am happy

4 Likes
15

Im placing my bet that with the nerf and removal of healing you guys are finna appreciate the healing buff Swarm was giving.
Sadly bad druids were too loud and we lost another good ability.

16

Im a Feral main too and think the new talents are looking pretty interesting.

Personally i disagree with your opinion of Bloodtalons. I can see why you dislike it but i really like the incentive to use different combo generators instead of spamming 1. To me its way more fun and i would´ve loved if they changed it so bloodtalons only buffs Ferocious Bite. This way there is no Snapshot issue (since Blizzard wants to remove it) and it also means since u dont use Bloodtalons on Rip anymore you have to generate less so its easyer to use.

17

They’re also faster and more mobile than a cat, jokes on them. :sweat_smile:

1 Like
18

These changes go live and all you can do as a feral druid is roleplay.
Mark my words.

19

Not really faster. There are some gimmicks like outlaw grapling hook, but cat has baseline movement speed that only outlaw with specific talents can reach.

Sprint = dash but you also have roar for yourself and entire group.

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NE Feral moves at 153% when prowling while, NE sub rogue moves at 146%.

Ferals has Dash and Roar on 2min cd for 60% for 10 sec, while sub rogue has Sprint for 100% movement for 12 sec on 1min cd.

Also, Fade to Nothing grants 20% movement speed that stacks with everything when entering stealth and because rogue has only 2sec CD on Stealth it can be used endlessly not to mention the use of Shadow Dance.
They also have 2 charges of Shadowstep which also briefly increases movement speed but personally i prefer Cat charge, as Shadowstep has this horrible feature force turning your camera.

I’m not exactly sure about this one but rogues seems to take a lot of less dmg via Safe Fall than Ferals with Feline Grace (baked into Catform now)

21

two charges of shadowstep is a talent

speaking of talents - you either have tlaent that can make your dash 200% and on 45 seconds CD (you loose fharge but that is REALLY fast and down from 2 min) and my roar is on 60 sec CD - also a talent.

Then talent for feral swiftness that gives extra 15% passive movespeed.

Which leaves me with charge at 60 seconds, dash at 120 seconds, charge and a travel form + ability to never be rooted (or rather cancel any root at will by shapeshifting)

No, I dont believe my rogue felt that mobile, but I did play outlaw.