It’s explained better in here:
www smolderforge com/forums/viewtopic php?t=4817
But to quote:
" In TBC if you are a Warrior or a Paladin Tank you need 102.5% BlockCap to up “Uncrushable” If your a paladin using this macro make sure to pop holy shield."
If you were raiding, yes, you needed to knock crushing blows off the table with your combined avoidance because getting a crushing blow at the wrong moment would cause a wipe in progression content. It’s not the same as having 102.5% true avoidance though.
I can’t remember the exact figures and percents but this was a common thread for tanks to follow if they were serious about tanking, to reach “Def cap” as priority one.
It was something like (using made up figures) you have a 5% chance to be missed, and a 70% chance to be hit, and a 25% chance to be crushed on a raid boss, and then any additional avoidance takes from being crushed, so for example having 10% parry means:
5% chance to miss, 10% chance to parry, 70% to hit, 15% to be crushed. For example.
So you’d hoard defence to make your avoidance stats high enough to “push” crushing blows off the table. Some tanks needed more than others because some could knock them off more easily due to skills granting block etc.
I’m pretty sure you needed this on Hc Dungeons in TBC also as I tanked those but the only raid I tanked was Kara. I stopped tanking around Cata though so my memory may be slightly off.
I remember trying a Hc Dungeon when our small friends and family guild hit max level in TBC. We were a pile of bones inside the entrance. So I did some research into tanking so we could do heroics. Took me a while to gear up enough to tank them but I got there.
Cant remember, it was tied to level of mob versus you. You needed less for dungeons as dungeon bosses were only 3 levels higher than you, but raid bosses conned as skull, which I believe was treated as 10 levels higher regarding stats needed
It was the same for hit cap, I remember assiduously Persuing a very specific amount of hit on my enh shaman in TBC and cata so I could guarantee my spells hit raid bosses and my melee swing chance hitting them was a 10% chance to miss, because gearing for more hit instead of crit beyond that was less effective so long as my spells always hit and most of my melee did.
I raided as a feral druid up until MH/BT, you couldn’t get crushing blows off the table as a feral druid. So, no, you didn’t need that high avoidance as a tank specifically, some tanks needed it, not all. It was also pretty hard to get immune to crit unless you used gear with resilience on it as a feral druid.
Feral druids only had miss/dodge or they were hit. No parry, no block.
Ye druids couldn’t do it, which is part of why they held obscure status as tanks. Better than classic but still not as great as warrior.
My bro played feral tank at one point and I recall he did a lot of PvP to get resilience gear like you said.
Guilds otherwise with their crap together probably didn’t care, but there was most definitely this idea that you consciously aimed for a certain defensive stat setup, ie metagaming as far as your spec allowed it. I won’t claim it was “absolutely necessary” because druid tanks existed and did ok. I was more pointing out what I think the poster meant.
If I remember druid was actually a really theory heavy class in the older game due to stuff like powershifting and the role it played on DPS, and their unique weapon interactions in classic for example. Same with their energy ticks as cat dps.
This could be accurate; and it’s a problem.
I quit LoL for a reason; the playerbase is the most vile, horrible collection of human beings I’ve ever had the misfortune of having to interact with.
WoW should not be a game where min/max matters unless you’re going for the absolute hardest content in the game. But sadly many players who are NOT among the best players in the game look up to those hardcore people and aspire to be like them; thus adopting their mindset and ways, while this is totally, totally not appropriate for the parts of the game they (the tryhards, not the hardcore) actually play.
And so it trickles down, this toxic mentality. And here we are, years of this happening and a large part of the playerbase being brainwashed to the point where they actually believe the nonsense they’ve been fed.
It’s a sad state of affairs and I really hope Blizzard can do something to fix it.
Yeah, this is the shift that happened in wow beginning around Wrath where MinMaxing used to be about capability to complete content to being about speed. In TBC if a tank couldn’t survive a fight he was kicked, by WoD (probably earlier) if a fight took 30 seconds longer than someone thought it should the lowest dps was kicked.
while this is totally, totally not appropriate for the parts of the game they (the tryhards, not the hardcore) actually play.
This is such an idiotic claim. People can min-max while they run normal dungeons only. If they find it fun then let them. Who are you to tell them they’re not allowed to min-max just because they’re not the top 0.1%? Who are you to tell them how to play the game?
You’re the person who was moaning all over the forums a few months back about there being no more progression in the game while all you did was world content. You’re the person who was advocating for your playstyle to be more rewarding. So who tf are you to tell that some people shouldn’t play the game a certain way?
But then again, remembering your attitude, it’s not that surprising. You’ve always come off extremely self centered on here so it’s nice to see that eventhough you’re (sadly) back you’ve not changed one bit.
Hah. You hit the nail on the head my friend.
Because THAT is EXACTLY what THEY do.
Tell others how to play. Turn down players for their group because they’re not min-maxed the way THEY think they should be. Etc.
Wrong. I MAINLY do world content. It’s not ALL I do.
Yes.
I’m not. I’m telling the truth; it’s not NEEDED (or at the very least SHOULD NOT BE NEEDED - unless Blizz messed up on tuning) to min-max at lower content levels. That’s a fact.
I’m not saying they can’t. I’m saying they don’t have to. They THINK they do, but that’s a falacy.
But also; so?
What do those things you say about me have to do with ANYTHING related in this thread? Nothing. Exactly.
You’re just lashing out at me because you disagree with my personal views on gaming.
And that’s pretty sad tbh.
Best case scenario here is that you misunderstood what I said and got all upset for nothing, but that still makes you pretty foolish. All in all; you’re at fault here. Not me.
WOW doesn’t have lots of min-max potential anyway. I mean what do you have there - your spec, your talents, your gear (which is all the same and follows the same stat budget), your enchants, gems, whatever. It’s very set in stone and the outcome is predictable. In the end the amount of systems you can minmax isn’t large.
Want to see hardcore minmaxing? Path of Exile is that way.
Even something as simple as your main attack can be minmaxed. See, skills in that game are equippable gems. Normally the max level of a skill gem is 20. They can also have increased quality, up to +20%. But that’s not the end, oh no. You can Vaal Orb them which has unpredictable outcome and prevents you from applying any further crafting onto it. It can gain a level, it can lose a level, it can gain some quality. Thing is - this can bypass the limit and you can get level 21 gem with 23% quality. This is the only way to achieve that and it’s random. We’re done now? Oh hell no, we’re not XD Endgame bosses drop Awakened versions of skill gems - level 1 Awakened is better than level 21 regular. They can be leveled up to lv. 5 and also vaaled to lv. 6. Now you have fully min maxed a skill gem. One system out of… eh, like a hundred.
You’re not doing instantiated content and that is fine. But don’t tell to those who are actually engaging there that they don’t need. Most of gamers would take the best option if they’re being given ways of doing so.
Talking aboot bad tunning, Denathrius is wrongly tuned.
The game became harder, this is why min maxing is a thing. This is being emphasized by complex borrowed powers.
Ion himself mocked raidbots users. Well, turns out his systems are pushing raidbots.
No it’s not. It helps, but you can do fine without it.
It’s been a lie for years and people have drank the kool-aid for far too long and now actually preach that nonsense as gospel.
‘Helps’ or ‘is needed’ is not the same thing. At all.