Mistweaver - Why is there little to no interaction with mastery while fistweaving?

Classes Monk
1

Hi all,

Very short, but it’s a pet peeve I’ve had wow all the time. I don’t mind a certain secundairy stat being BIS for a spec/class, however I do mind when secundairy stats are (bordeline) useless for specs/builds* which can be solved with relatively unfundamental changes.

Why does fistweaving have no interactions with our mastery other than the few heals and chi-ji window?

I dont mind if they’d balance it out by nerfing other sources of healing in the build like the heal from our teaching of the mosastery or something.

What do you think?

*Another example would be rogues and haste given their GCD speed not being affected.

2

Because Fistweaver should be a standalone spec at this point. Granted, I appreciate the effort they put in for DF to make it as close to one as possible without actually doing it, but things like the mastery do feel lackluster yet still necessary because our dps healing doesn’t scale well enough to rely on alone.

3

I do wish we had a different mastery. For some reason we are encouraged to hardcast for mastery buffs - and those buffs are strong, a caster MW can put out a shedload of heals. But we also run OOM really fast if we do this.

TLDR, I suspect the monk designer left Blizzard during WoD and nobody else has really been assigned to the job so we bounce between people who don’t understand how to play us.

THAT SAID 10.1 has some very nice updates for us. Still no mastery change, but filling in our weak spots (for M+) at least. Next season might well be mistweaver’s time to shine.

But in the end, we are balanced around how our weird mastery is. Stack it to be strong in Chi Ji windows, or dump it to average out a bit more. Although we will probably fail hps checks if we do the latter :pensive:

4

I just came to this forum to make a thread about it :smiley:

The entire design of FW monks just screams to be a separate spec.

  1. There is only one build right now for FW. And it does not mean it’s the best one, it’s linearly just one build, and other talents are close to useless or useless.

  2. Mastery does NOTHING, in solo shuffle healing from the mastery is between 0-2%… (not sure if it’s the same in PvE, but I guess so)

  3. Making regular healing abilities work with FW is just awkward.

  4. We have no dedicated FW cooldown, other than that funny bird.

The thing we need the most right now is a CD when you just hit the air without enemy in front (let’s call it “Tai Chi”), and you still do the healing. The biggest flow in the gameplay for FW is when there is no one to hit close by. In PvE I read that you often need to run away dodging game mechanism, and your healing goes to zero. In PvP when they kite you all day, you don’t heal anything, or even better. Yday by boomkin buddy died, because he used clone on the only target that was close to me xD I mean, it’s not really healthy mechanic.

  1. We could see a lot of new damage oriented abilities, that would heal in the unique way.

  2. It will be easier to balance both “specs”.

The only downside of splitting FW and regular one into two specs, is that it’s gonna be nerf for PvP. As right now based on the lobby, you can pretty much change your spec, by getting different talents and gear. But if they will address the issue of why do we have to do it (and that is, 30yd range heal, when you play let’s say with 4x casters, and nothing is close to each other), than I would not be worried by it so much.

Also, this game really needs more healing specs!

5

I mean there’s definitely raiding and M+ builds. If anything, caster mistweaver has less options than fistweaver.

I don’t do solo shuffle so take that into account, but Chi Ji is based on mastery. If you get no mastery healing, you’re not using Chi Ji? The bird is solid. If you don’t feel like you get good melee opportunities in PvP - use Yu’lon instead, because she is built for ranged casting and if you aren’t going to get melee uptime, she’s the better pick. And since you’re ranged casting, you’ll be using the spells that proc mastery :smile_cat:

Instant vivify every 10 seconds is fluid and comfortable, imo. I do think the game fails to tell you it’s available and had to make a custom weakaura to track it because I will not see it up in my buffs bar in combat.

Who is one of the better cooldowns in the game in terms of healing done in a short time :smile_cat: I do struggle with how MW tends to get balanced around our celestial though; we are strong for 12 seconds per minute, then we have to endure 48 seconds with little else. Would be happy to see some rebalancing here.

This will be improved in 10.0.7 when we have Sheilun’s Gift talented to cover 5 players, giving us a big group heal every 40 seconds, which will alternate well with Chi Ji.

Yes but no. Most times you dodge, you’re dodging for a few seconds. Instant vivify, fresh faeline stomp, essence font, renewing mist, defensives, even revival and cocoon; anticipate the need to move and have a couple of things ready to press. If you have to move out for an extended time; remember vivify exists and cleaves through renewing mist. You of course have ReM on the whole party, all the time, so you will get some healing out of this. It’s not mana efficient and you do want to get back into melee when you can, but we are absolutely not powerless out of it.

I won’t claim it’s easy; it isn’t. MW has to look 10-30 seconds into the future, which makes us quite reliant on timer bars. I’m not a great fan of this design, I do find it harder to play than, say, prevoker; but it is what it is, and there are ways to make it work.

That said, I would not object to a split of monk healing into 2 distinct specs. I would enjoy the choice and variety it would bring, and it would help decompress the talents so there are choices that are a bit less prescribed.

6

Interesting. I know nothing about PvE perspective, but it makes a lot of sense.

Just a note that in the PvP build, you have no talents left to take instant vivify.

And I agree that Chi Ji is very powerful. I am not saying FW is bad by any means, I actually think it’s (at least in PvP) one, if not the strongest spec. But it just feels that all CDs and skills and not designed for it. It just does not feel right to me.

7

Then tbh I feel like the PvP build is missing how massively important it is to be able to Vivify once per 10 seconds without any chance of being interrupted. You get ReMist out on the team, you Vivify, you supply heals. Maybe not massive heals, but reliable, unstoppable heals. For a spec that is super vulnerable to being locked out of its only spell school, I would honestly have expected there to be more priority on this. But I don’t PvP really so… :person_shrugging:

Tbh, you won’t get much argument from me here. There are a lot of things about MW that make it bad for PvP; reliance on hard casts OR being in melee, both of which make us deeply vulnerable. Only one spell school, so we get shut down fast and hard. Defensives that can’t be used while stunned, meanwhile other classes do get to use theirs.

Overall it has often felt like there is no overall guidance on how to keep classes on an equal footing :pensive:

But that said, I still think MW is in the best state it has been in for several years - in M+. In raids it can pump, but it is a 200 IQ class and frankly I and many others are failing at it. In PvP I can’t even guess, but I don’t see any changes I would expect to make it particularly better than SL.

8

It’s because PvP has Dampening, Mortal Wounds effects and damage in general is too high. Ancient Teachings is buffed to 375% in PvP over the 150% in PvE. Vivify gets no such power boost. Even in scenarios where you get to afk cast Vivifies through Soothing Mist on a target with Enveloping Mist/Renewing Mist active, you’ll very likely fall behind as Fistweaver. As far as I know, the way the caster build heals is mostly through Gust of Mist with high mastery stacking and every single talent to increase its power. Fistweavers go all out on slapping people and occasionally hardcasting an Enveloping Mist (through Soothing Mist if Chi-Ji isn’t up and you’re not at risk of getting interrupted) in order to increase the healing from slapping people.

9

This topic was automatically closed 30 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.