I am here right back at ya, buckaroo. Anyways, I wanna make Dark Iron Dwarf alt that will be Huginn’s brother or half-brother, would it work from lore and “society” standpoint?
Short anwser: Nope!
Long anwser: Nnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooope!
… Okay, in all seriousness, no. It wouldn’t work, because dark iron and wildhammer dwarves weren’t allies until recently.
So a dark iron and a wildhammer having a kid, for one would be extremely out of the ordinary.
And having two children with one inheriting one parent’s appearence while the other would the other’s, is a biiiiig big biological nonesense. Both siblings would be half dark iron half wildhammer.
Edit:
I’m aware I said wildhammer a lot, while I have no idea if your character is wildhammer or bronzebeard, I just used one of them as a substitute for “not dark iron”, so all my points still stand.
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What if your “regular dwarf” and your Dark Iron aren’t blood related, but forge a strong bond in some other way?
Maybe they start out distrustful of one another, maybe even outright hostile?
Heck, maybe they met in battle when the Dark Irons were naughty, and became bitter enemies…
And then, uh…
Something happens, and they get to see each other’s true intentions, maybe save each other’s lives or something…
[Some moderately epic story…]
They become as close as any siblings…
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I think Tyreathaion kind of nailed it with the difficulties of the concept, though I’d be a little more open to the idea.
I think I mentioned in a different thread about how it is possible, but in case I’m going senile in my old age and just -thought- I did, I’ll go over it.
Is it biologically possible for a Wildhammer and Dark Iron to be half brothers? Yes. Completely. Is it possible for them to be -actual- brothers? Yes, completely, Moira’s child proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the three clans of Dwarves are perfectly capable of breeding with each other. I mean that’s her whole point, that’s why she keeps banging on about her son being the rightful heir of Ironforge.
Now, is it -Likely-?
Hmmmnyeaah kinda not so much.
The Dark Irons as a whole, were bitter enemies of the Bronzebeards, and the Wildhammer had pretty much isolated themselves, remember as the Alliance ‘Hero’ you have to earn their trust in Twilight Highlands, and bring them back into the Alliance, the same as the Horde ‘hero’ does with the Dragonmaw. Now you can tell that the Wildhammer aren’t part of the Alliance at that point because of a piece of quest text that still makes me chuckle, as it shows the different use of words across the Atlantic, and how sometimes really blatant swearing makes it through Blizzard’s checkers. (I give you the Sea Dogs in Silverpine, and a line of dialogue stating that one of them, upon being awoken, remarks that they may, or may not have…ahem, micturated in their pants, but using a word that rhymes with ‘missed’) Now in this line of dialogue I refer to, a WIldhammer (The first one you meet actually, on the beach) refers to “You Alliance ****s (A word beginning with ‘W’ and rhyming with ‘Tanks’) took yer sweet time getting here”.
Well he’s not going to say that, if the Wildhammer in fact -are- in the Alliance. He’d have no need to clarify, He’d just say “You took your sweet time getting here” rather than clarify that he means the Alliance.
So what that means, is that until Cata, neither the Wildhammer or the Dark Irons were part of the Alliance. Now the Wildhammer were mostly friendly to the Alliance, and the Dark Irons mostly unfriendly, but both were separate, the only Alliance dwarves were the Bronzebeard Clan.
OK, so, what does that have to do with a Wildhammer/Dark Iron brotherly situation. Well, the obstacles are as follows; The two Clans live nowhere near each other (not insurmountable as a problem goes). They have hated each other for centuries till -very- recently (Much more of a problem), and with the best will in the world, the have nothing in common, culturally (this said, love finds a way).
Any children of such a union would basically be just…well, Dwarves, with how genetics work (And yeah, sure I am talking about our world, not necessarily Azeroth) They’re not going to be distinctly either, you’re probably just looking at a swarthy Dwarf with likely amber coloured eyes. It does happen that one sibling looks different to another, when the parentage is mixed race, I know a pair of brothers of mixed race in real life, and indeed, one looks ‘white’ and the other looks ‘black’, but the point is, neither of them identifies as ‘White’ or ‘Black’ despite, well, them being both. I don’t think they even think about it that much, which to be honest seems like a healthy and wholesome way to look at it. If they were to commit a crime however, they would be identified by different police coding ( IC1 and IC3) even though they are actually biological brothers of the same parents. So it can happen.
Usually however, such a child would be what is referred to as ‘mixed race’ (the term Half-caste is now widely regarded as offensive) so having attributes of both sides of their parentage. It is safe to say that the Wildhammer and Dark Irons are not just different Clans, but different Ethnicities of the Dwarven species.
So how could it work? Well, leaving aside a tragic Romeo and Juliet “Two Star-crossed lovers” scenario, there is one group of predominantly Dark Iron, who were actually neutral, and did not sign up for Mr Ragnaros’ crazy ride, but remained on peaceable terms with the Alliance (Horde too for that matter) and that is the Thorium Brotherhood. Hansel Heavyhands being probably the most famous.
So you’ve got the Neutral Wildhammer, and the Neutral Dark Irons of the Thorium Brotherhood. Could there have been a child of such a union?
Absolutely.
So long and meandering answer (As is the only sort I know how to give! ) Is that yes, it is in fact entirely possible. Rare, yes, but Possible.
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Yeah, but that’s why I would suggest against it. A lot of things are possible and can happen but aren’t really recommended to try pulling off in RP.
Like, it can logically happen, but is very much under the special snowflake type of character that everyone (up until BfA killed it) here on the forums was so fond of telling people not to do.
I will always disagree with people saying a relationship is completely impossible because of political reasons.
Any two races, no matter how far opposed politically, can end up in a relationship. People are people. They are not their governments. Dark Irons could always be opposed to Thaurissan’s tyranny, and escape their government. Ironforge dwarves could have easily been evil, or at least willing to deal with evil people for the greater good, and end up dealing with Dark Irons loyal to Thaurissan.
Politics are never an issue that cannot be removed. Maybe that would make you a special snowflake. But making all of your characters the perfect exemplar of their race as evidenced in their government is boring.
The only obstacle I find to cross-racial breeding is races that are too different biologically. I assume humans can breed with any near-human race, such as dwarves or all kinds of elves. But tauren can probably only breed with other varieties of tauren, furbolgs at most would breed with pandaren, etc. And dragons, of course, can breed with anything.
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I don’t think anyone said impossible.
But would anyone take the son of a dragon and a half night elf born to a tauren and a priestess of Elune during the war of the ancients any seriously?
Yes, that example was more far fetched than the original discussion, but to make a point of there being some concepts that are technically possible but you shouldn’t do it because of how unlikely the events leading up to your character being there would be.
This particular instance? No, I would not take it seriously. But two dwarves of different, formerly hostile clans being brothers? Nothing wrong with that.
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Oh I completely get that, I mean, I’m a LARPer from the UK, there is a phrase that has become common parlance in the hobby, (actually coined by a friend of mine around a D&D game, round about the same time we came up with the ‘rules for LARP’)
“Don’t play a Mighty Warrior! Play a Warrior and -Be- Mighty!”
Basically you don’t have to be a snowflake, You can do the normal thing, but make your character special through the -things- that you do.
So how does this work with the situation of a Half Dark Iron/Half Wildhammer.
Well, I’m glad you asked (even though you didn’t: Pro tip, never get a professional Voice Actor to start explaining anything or talking about -anything- you cannot shut us up, even in text based communication!)
Its pretty simple. You avoid ‘Drizzt Do’Urden’ syndrome.
For those unaware, and if you’ve never heard of Drizzt, can I please, please steal some of your years to regain some of my youth?
Drizzt Do’urden was a Dark Elf, AKA Drow, in the Forgotten Realms setting of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, He had many novels written about him by an author called R.A Salvatore, some of them New York Times Bestsellers, but anyway.
The novels themselves? Actually really good, well written, with attention to detail, characters who were believable, I mean they were good enough that 30 years later I can remember their names, Drizzt of course, who was a Drow Ranger, Bruenor, a Dwarf scion of nobility who’s home underground city was lost, Catti-Brie, a young human orphan who Bruenor had adopted (It was always hinted she was a Rogue type) and Wulfgar, Catti-Brie’s romantic other half, but was basically Conan, but nice. A Good Guy Barbarian basically. Oh, and of course Regis, a Halfling/Hobbit type, who definitely was a rogue.
Now the point I bring them up, will now become apparent.
You couldn’t go more than a chapter, without at some point, Drizzt banging on about being a Drow and how unaccepted he was. Now fair enough, Drow were visibly distinct, they had obsidian Skin, as Elves they had pointy ears, and stark white hair.
But seriously, He banged on about it more than most of the ‘commonfolk humans’ who he complained about.
I mean how is that going to work with a half Wildhammer/half Dark Iron?
Surely you’d just kind of…not bang on about it?
I mean why would you? Its not going to be immediately noticeable, you’re either going to look like one or the other, or a mix, any way you look at it, you’re not going to introduce yourself as “Hi, I’m Aengus Tenhammer, don’t mind my appearance, I’m half Wildhammer, Half Dark Iron” I mean my mate Russ doesn’t go “Hi, I’m Russell, my mother was black and my dad was white”
Why would you?
You’d just…be you?
Its possible. Its very possible, but is it remarkable enough to be a ‘thing’ of controversy?
Probably not, to be honest, but if it -was- a thing, Don’t make it a crucial aspect of your character, make a character who happens to have that backstory, that nonetheless doesn’t define them.
I mean they won’t see it that way, that’s just who they are…
I mean unless they physically look different, it just isn’t a thing you’d bring up. I have an incredibly, incredibly English accent. Do I feel the need to tell people I am actually half Scottish and half Irish, but just happened to splat out in England?
No, why would it crop up? I mean you could probably -tell- what region of the world I came from, I’m a white dude, and whilst my hair isn’t ginger, my beard is. (Actually, sadly more and more white hairs these days). You wouldn’t be able to look at me and go “Hmm, Clearly, his mother was Irish, and his father Scottish” I could be English, Irish, Scottish, I could be Welsh, French, Scandinavian, German, Russian, American.
Same with Dwarves.
Have it be part of your story, don’t make it be the crux of the whole thing. People don’t think that way.
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We did previously mention that it makes very little sense for one brother to fully belong to one clan while the other to another.
If they’re the sons of parents belonging to two different clans, one might take after his bronzebeard mother and the other after his dark iron father, but they would both be of mixed clans. Nothing would be different about them aside from looks.
What I would highly recommend instead, is I believe what Brigante mentioned, about them being very close to a level of considering each other siblings, but they wouldn’t be blood related.
To be honest, given the vaguely Celtic/Norse way the Dwarves seem to be, I think that would be a good solution, both cultures have those views.
One quote I’ll never forget that I adore, but have opportunity to use just ever so rarely, is “Bonds of sweat are stronger than those of blood.” from Skyrim.
I think it’d be far more interesting to RP that out, instead of just vaguely mentioning “Och, aye, me ma was dark iron and me da was a bronzebeard. Ah do think of meself as a bronzebeard, but me brother fancies himself a dark iron, because he has ember eyes, ye see.”
No one’s gonna be interested in that. But if you tell them your brother in arms, who you fought off a hundred ice trolls off with, actually happens to be a dark iron, that might get actually interesting conversations going.
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To echo previous posts about it being rare, but also pointing out that if the mix is between a Bronzebeard and a Dark Iron I think that’s the most likely scenario if you take the Bronzebeard being part of the Alliance that worked with the Thorium Brotherhood’s Dark Iron and met their loved one there ![:slight_smile:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
I feel Wildhammer and Dark Iron is the least likely mix thinking of their cultures and history ![:woman_shrugging:t3:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/woman_shrugging/3.png?v=6" ":woman_shrugging:t3:")
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I love that quote, you made me decide lad.
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