It’s just objectively wrong. It’s not even 9% overall anyway. No, it won’t get worse with better gear. Single target it’s a ~3% loss. AoE, a ~7% loss. Over a dungeon it’s probably 5-6%. That really isn’t the end of the universe.
Erm, what? My deal is I think posting terrible misinformation to people is bad. Making people panic about what they are playing is bad. Over-exaggerating things is bad. If you play well, there will be no hard time nor frustration. If you think me posting non-dramatic things about nerfs is ‘childish’ then sure. I just aim to provide some counter arguments to the constant doomsaying on the forums from people who massively overexaggerate any minor change.
I would rather they didn’t fix it. I prefer doing more damage. But that doesn’t mean i’m going to go onto the forums kicking and screaming how awful MM will be when it simply isn’t true.
You will cry if this change goes through. i promise it will hit you harder than you think.
Yes it will be worse with better gear
yes 7% ish overall in a dungeon. but a lot more on use.
Yes it will give hunters a hard time and lots of frustration. By that i mean who wants to bring a hunter when just get a meta class.
This will bring us down to where ret and havoc is.
And with childish comments i mean that you know exactly what people are saying and mean by what they say but you somehow start playing dumb. Ive read you’re posts…
…I know exactly how hard it will hit. Because we can literally simulate it. It’s not going to shock us.
If you don’t get brought, you can always make your own group. MM hunter will still be very strong in m+.
Not really how percentage numbers work. The nerf will be of pretty similar size regardless of gear level.
The irony is that I honestly have no idea what you mean by this. If being positive and not crying and whinging about changes is childish then you are more than welcome to ignore my posts.
Its pretty clear now that you dont know much about scaling.
Why dont you do some research and then come back to this topic.
You keep saying stuff but you dont have put anything into testing. all you got is a sim… how about you log into the damn PTR!
And that you dont even know how you are being childish is mindblowing…
It’s still the best ST legendary; it’s simmed the best ST for my Kyrian Hunter since Shadowland’s APLs were available and still sims at ~5% better than the closest non-SST variant (which is Surging Shots with Streamline FWIW) but with the disclaimer that the Raidbots APL always uses double tap on AiS even in builds where using it on Rapid Fire is better.
Of course, Surging Shots is also being buffed, but SST is hardly being “destroyed” so there’s hardly a need to doomsay.
But yes, this is exactly why the covenant system sucks - something as small as this little bug being fixed could cause Kyrian to leapfrog NF in terms of DPS and completely kill the investment many Hunters put into this whole worthless system as they are “forced” to swap over to the superior covenant.
Lol. I bet you are also one of those who think BM will outscale MM because of ‘scaling’ too. I would ask you how you think scaling would change this but we both know you have no idea.
Ah yes, because hitting a dummy on the PTR is FAR more scientific than 10k+ iteration sims /s.
You keep calling me childish, but you are the one crying and screaming whilst I remain objective.
We start at a higher base crit, so crit has less value than it otherwise would. For MM at least, we have talents that heavily favor more crit (Master Marksman in particular), so this is alleviated somewhat.
Base damage of abilities scaling from AP likely needs to be tweaked, and (for BM in particular) weapon damage needs to scale better. It isn’t a matter of the abilities not being strong enough (at least early in the gearing process), it’s that the scaling values (going back many, MANY expansions) aren’t high enough as a percentage of AP. In previous expansions, we would see this fixed every patch with adjustments to how much AP was granted by Aspect of the Hawk. Ideally, the %AP scaling would be buffed up a bit and the base damage nerfed such that we scale better with gear but aren’t as strong in leveling gear vs other classes in leveling gear.
Haste scaling doesn’t play nice with Trueshot, which reduces cast times and cooldowns in a way that is completely separate from base Haste. Going back to our focus on burst, we are balanced around having this big damage window every 2 minutes, especially with Wild Spirits, and that makes Haste less impactful overall. Changing Trueshot to a flat Haste buff (with CDR on Rapid Fire, since that cooldown isn’t reduced by Haste) would alleviate this somewhat, while making the base rotation including Precise Shots feel much more natural during Trueshot windows.
Mastery is variable between specs, with MM getting damage benefit to everything, SV only getting benefit to spenders, and BM only getting benefit to pet damage. For MM, this is fine - Mastery is basically our 2nd best stat after crit until you hit the level where stats on gear hit diminishing returns - but for BM/SV this leaves a lot to be desired.
No i never said or believe that so you are terrible mistaken.
And how do you know if im hitting a dummy or not? Very curious
None of that has absolutely any relevance whatsoever to ‘scaling’ in the context that you used it - meaning the serpentsalker interaction ‘nerf’ getting bigger over time. That was your point when it came to scaling.
Regardless:
Base crit is the same for both specs
Spells % AP damage changes all the time from expansion to expansion. Hunter specs from 6+ years ago have absolutely no relevance to now. In fact, the entire way spells scaled with gear was changed a couple of years back, from heavy on weapon damage to mainly based on %AP. Just because hunters needed band aid aspect of the hawk fixes 10 years ago means nothing to todays numbers.
Haste is completely fine for MM. I would also like trueshot to be haste based rather than CDR, but that’s besides the whole scaling point.
It’s irrelevant what mastery does for each spec in that way. Just because MM mastery effects all damage, and BM only effects pet, doesn’t necessarily mean that MM mastery is better, because the values needed for each % damage is tuned around that. BM mastery is only somewhat bad right now because a higher percentage than usual comes from the player through SFE, burrs, and wildspirits.
It doesn’t matter what you are doing on PTR, no amount of random testing with a million other factors at play (latency, player skill, HUGE amounts of RNG, this list could go on forever) will ever compare to hundreds of thousands of iterations in a sim.
If you cant see the issue and how much this will affect us, then good for you i guess.
But dont come in here saying that it was a bug when this was known and reported back in beta countless times. it is a massive nerf to us and we have all the reasons to be pissed off because of all the recources, time and energy we have put into that covenant just to see it get destroyed when this could be avoided and fixed before the launch of SL.
That double proc is sadly whats keeping us on the map.
We know exactly how much it will effect us, as i’ve said a million times. Just because something was reported in beta doesn’t mean it’s not a bug. EVERY single wild spirits interaction is 1 button press/1 proc except for SST. They didn’t want to fix it mid patch in case it effected progression/covenant/legendary tuning.
This is EXACTLY why they waited to fix it in a patch, with prior warning.
Not to mention that nf is still the best even with these changes, and SST is also still the best for single target. Literally nothing changed in this regard.
If it’s ‘only’ the SST double proc keeping you on the map you are doing something severely wrong.
Just so you’re aware, none of the positive changes to Marksmanship have any impact on their best builds. The best build for Marksmanship (Night Fae with Serpentstalker Trickery in all PvE scenarios) is actually weaker in 9.0.5 thanks to a bug fix ruining an interaction, yet still remains the best choice.
And as a reminder, MM is no longer meta for any content in game. We are completely displaced by WW/Boomkin/Outlaw/Fire in M+, and multiple classes outperform us in Nathria. In PvP all Hunter specs are atrocious.
