Morally grey themes in the Alliance that Blizzard should explore more

I legit wouldn’t mind the Alliance being ‘villain’ batted completely.

I don’t want peace with the horde, I want them destroyed. I want to see a great road paved from Ironforge to Stormwind with the bones of every orc that dared set foot on Azeroth. I want to see every single forsaken return to the ground from whence they came. There can be no peace on Azeroth for as long as a single undead or orc breathes. Wickedness and aggression is just in their nature.

Anduin’s way of ‘winning’ the war will surely just involve giving them a slap on the wrist, only for them to return a year later and slaughter even more of our people. Jaina disappointed me with the whole ‘let them grieve’ thing. No, take this opportunity to either utterly slaughter the Zandalari or at least make them regret ever being on good terms with the Horde for decades to come, acting as an example to all others who consider throwing their hat in with the Horde.

Semi-roleplay aside, I want this to be the last big hurrah for the faction conflict. I may want what I said above, but I know it’ll never happen due to the structure of the game. Neither side is going to lose badly, so it feels like there’s no real stakes involved. If WoW really is bleeding subscribers and funding, then perhaps they could save a lot of time, effort and resources with just making a one-size-fits-all for the next expansion as opposed to spreading themselves thin by making stuff for two factions.

But those are Ashvane’s people, it kind of stretch to say it’s Kul Tiras’s official foreign policy to enslave captured people.
And regarding Kaza’jin’s dialogue, it could be interpreted as hyperbole

I think I’ve read somewhere outside that Kul’Tirans unlike other human nations were known from slavery.

I think it should’ve been implemented and worked on, it would absolutely separate them from Stormwind, it would give some more grim niche to the Alliance, and actually make story morally grey.

Molten Giant:

Molten giants, also known as magma giants, are enormous fire elementals reminiscent of titan-forged mountain giants. They are native to the Firelands, but some have been pulled into Azeroth by Ragnaros. Though ultimately loyal to Ragnaros, the giants are kept in line by the heavy-handed rule of King Moltron. Molten destroyers are the stronger, tougher brethren of the molten giants, and stand guard deeper in the Molten Core.

These elementals are powerful, unpredictable and violent. The summoning and controlling of molten giants is forbidden by the Earthen Ring, as the use of such coercion could anger the elements and trigger an event similar to the Cataclysm. However, during the attack on Theramore Isle, Garrosh Hellscream ordered his dark shaman to force molten giants into battle.

Generic Npc:

Dazar’Alor Raid Npc:

Dark Iron Quest Npc: Magma Elemental.

Dark Shamanism

The dark shaman is a dark version of a shaman, forcing the elements into servitude by using Decay, twisting them into burned-out ash, corrupted waters, and toxic air. They exist within the Fel Horde, the Twilight Cult, the True Horde, and the Iron Horde. Initially they formed an independent organization called Dark Shaman, consisting of surviving members of the Twilight’s Hammer, and took over the Ragefire Chasm. After Garrosh began building his new base of power beneath Orgrimmar, most of the Ragefire Dark Shaman swore allegiance to his cause, and began training Kor’kron shaman in the art of Dark Shamanism. Instead of simple robes, these shaman wear ominous-looking garments more akin to warlocks. During the attack on Northwatch Hold, the dark shaman summoned molten giants, an act forbidden by the Earthen Ring, to crush the Alliance defenders.[3] The Iron Horde’s dark shaman are of the Warsong clan, and use the Void to enslave the elements.

In short: Usage of Molten Giants is considered Dark Shamanism as it depends on coercion.

No need to further elaborate.

And i don’t recall having this argument with you.

Void elves summon Void aberrations to hunt down Gonk and his children. Garrosh trying to do something similar with the remains of Yshaarj was demonised into being a raid boss.

Double standards. Simple as.
Not that i give this any more relevance, because at this point its become somewhat usual.
But you should probably rip off the bandaid.

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Ashenvale & Co. Are knowned for their slavery. That’s a pretty big organization in Kul’tiras…

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But Dark shamanism also involves the usage of Decay or Void magics to enslave elements, rather than just forcing them, which I don’t think the Dark Irons (outside of the Twilight cult) have been shown to use

No Dark shamanism isn’t about using void or Decay, - just forcing elementals alone counts as it.

Yes they are, but not under official orders from the Lord Admiral AFAIK

There is ZERO evidence to suggest that the Molten Giant summoned by the Dark Iron were under its control by threats or enslavement.

This is your headcanon. Nothing more.

What about the Mag’har Orcs using Void magic?

Go on, answer it.

But they could even command the troops of Kul’tiras. Ashenvane was far away to become the new lord admiral too.

Wowpedia: The dark shaman is a dark version of a shaman, forcing the elements into servitude by using Decay.
The Iron Horde’s dark shaman are of the Warsong clan, and use the Void to enslave the elements

Yes, she did hold de facto authority, but that doesn’t mean that Katherine agreed with her regarding enslavement while she was still Lord Admiral

Most of the Dark Iron were part of the Twilight Hammer cult…
Or, to be more precise, a sizeable portion of them.

Are we to expect that these “New” Dark Iron, that were instructed under the Twilight Hammer doctrines, that function so similarly, and follow the same path regarding Elemental usage, are somehow COMPLETELY different?
What would it take for you to see it? Some purple halo around their hands while they summon and control an elemental that is literally said to function only under force?

Its literally mentioned that these elementals only function under coercion.

And then you have the quest:

The rumors o’ yer capabilities seemed overblown, but it appears yer indeed a competent one, aren’t ye? I underestimated ye, <name>. For that, I apologize. Don’t tell Thaelin. The components for the ritual are now prepared. All ye need to do is add the Firelands Slag to the Unstable Magma an’ a great bein’ from the Firelands will heed our call. You’ll gain control o’ it and can eliminate the nearby goblin threat with nigh invincibility.

Where are they doing so in the same fashion as Umbric?

I don’t recall any mention of Kul Tiran slavers back during the Second War or the Invasion of Durotar, when Daelin ruled and kept his people united under his firm grip. The Ashvanes pulled off their slavery successfully only because the incompetent Katherine was basically Ashvane’s puppet. And once the Alliance player character working for Cyrus realized that the Ashvanes were enslaving children, they were tasked with setting them free.

But they could even command the troops of Kul’tiras. Ashenvane was far away to become the new lord admiral too.

Where is the source of this? We know nothing of Lord Ashvane, aside from the fact that he died fighting side by side with Daelin.

Stella’s probably referring to Priscilla Ashvane

Where? Nothing you have linked shows this.

Luckily Unstable Magma isn’t a molten giant right?

And it heeds your call, that doesn’t mean enslavement does it? It lets you do what you want with it. Nothing more.

It is the principle of it, not the scale.

Still doesn’t change the fact that I didn’t see Ashvane commanding Kul Tiran troops. She was in charge only of her own marines. When she locked Jaina, she needed Katherine’s approval to do so, meaning that at least formally Katherine was still her superior. When she was exposed for her betrayal, the Proudmoore marines instantly turned on her and her followers.

Whos is this Kaza’jin who claims that the Kul Tirans are slavers? He is a random Zandalari, what does he know of Kul Tiran culture and society? NOTHING.

First quest in Kul’tiras with Taelia.

It seems that they know more then we do. We didn’t know as Player that the tidesage can use Void too.

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It’s plausible that they would use the same methods, but there’s no way to know for sure unless there’s dialogue that confirms it. I like to think that they are, but I cant find dialogue that confirms that they use decay or void magics

Chronicles Vol.1, page 10: Decay is the tool of shaman seeking to subjugate and weaponize the elements themselves

This quote is taken from Tides of War, which in turn, further expands on how these elementals are forbidden because they must be coerced by the shaman that tries to use them.

Luckily, apparently they are the same.

The Npc is called “Magma Elemental”. And the quest literally speaks of controlling it.

“The Principle”? What?
No, it really is much simpler: Are the Maghar summoning void aberrations like Garrosh and Void elves tried to? Are they using said spells to further their cause in this war as both Garrosh and Void elves did?

Yeah, we all had Shadow Priest for a while now. Scale matters.
Its not as if Maghar Shadowpriests are summoning Old God minions and Void Abominations like Void elves do in Zuldazar.

PS: Anyway, i don’t want to be caught up with this. Already said everything i meant.