Original post was deleted, so topic continues here. No more talking about certains addons or links, i guess.
Why do ppl so mad about evaluating their performance in keys? It’s not about gathering anything personal or game breaking at all.
This will allow other players to make more informed choices when assembling a group.
gear score ptsd my dude…
Back in the day there was this addon called Gearscore… It worked pretty much as the name sounds like.
What did it do though? It worked as a massive gatekeeping tool… It was like a modern job application.
‘‘We’re looking for new raiders! But you have to have this and that experience and gear score before joining us’’
People be like… ‘‘But how am I going to get that experience and that gearscore if nobody lets me raid and get that gearscore?’’
Well too bad for you. Your out…
When people see addons like this… they see it as new player unfriendly… Its considered like a massive wall of entry nobody can overcome if they are new.
Usually people gather the wrong data and make the wrong conclusions. It is only used to make the other feel worse than themselves. It is very much not needed.
Well, Item level = Gearscore and i remember it, yes.
And i still think, that you can get to +2 or +0 key without “numbers” at all. I will die on this hill tbh. It is good starting point for new players, right? To get used dungeon mechanics, upgrade their gear and RIO to progress further. We even have item progression Explorer → Adventurer → Veteran… so game involves a gradual progression, not jumps from +2 to +10.
And imo, ppl who don’t want to mess with “numbers” and progression, more focused about items, like weekly vault. So they want to skip all character progression and just jump over it to get “cookies” and then leave.
Imagine someone, who did all +2, then all +4, then all +7 and got relevant experience for +8, entered the key with person who have no clue about bosses and trash? The first person did a lot of work to get there and the second just skipped entire thing i pursuit of loot.
Is this okay?
I’m not saying, that previously mentioned solution is perfect, but im surprised about opposition about evaluating on first place.
You do know there are people that buy boosts exactly for this reason right?
Yes. If they got accepted into the group despite having zero M+ rating, then the one accepting doesn’t care and gets to live with the consequences, if any.
If anything, far more of my keys have been ruined by people who overpull or rush forward one single time, die, then quit on the spot, rather than those mythical “bad players who don’t kick or do mechanics”. People who are just kinda bad but persistent usually can still finish a key if they can’t time it.
YES! And this is perfect example, actually.
More “numbers” will reduce “boost efficiency”, cause it’s hard to boost statistic for last, idk 20 keys, right?
You still can boost that, but data will be updated on your performance after that, so boosting will make no sense at some point. Ofc, you can repeat, but is it even worth it at this point?
Fair.
And if i don’t want to take person with low numbers it is still valid in same world, right? Everyone playing as they want.
I did more than 170 keys this season on different characters as a healer. Ive seen a lot of problems in terms of kicks, mechanics, damage and so on. And even if you point at problem for ppl, asking them for HELP, they can just ignore it, cause “why try harder im #1”? Why do one person should struggle more, when the other one dont even care about that?
I disagree, I for one think boosting will become even more prevalent if this happens.
Remember the gladiator boosting in SL?
its just that… over all as wow players. Most of us know that wow isn’t exactly attracting new players you know? We want wow to be as fun and awesome as possible.
And we want new players to be included into the fun as much as possible.
The -old- Mindset we all used to have back in the gearscore days. just does not comply with that… More gatekeeping? Making it harder for new ones to join the fun? Nah we dont want that do we?
We want as much people as possible to be apart of what makes wow fun. Enjoy the fun of growing our characters stronger and tackling those keys.
The addon you posted. I truly didnt see anything wrong with it. with some more data and all into consideration. It could really be an helpful tool to show me how to improve…
However on the flip side? It can be used by ‘‘Elitist’’ to gate keep less experienced players and new players from joining the end game fun… And I think thats where the opposition to your addon lies.
Can we atleast agree, that we need some gatewalls in game, to make progression smoother? I dont wont +4 keys to be ELITE-ONLY thing, but maybe portal ones should motivate the player to make an effort? This is an achievement in the end, like AOTC in raids or arena titles on PvP.
So if someone wants this achievement → they need to do something to get it, as usual. I think some people are more obsessed about end result and do not care about “the journey behind it”.
I dont know how to solve that, but the problem will exist even without numbers. if someone focused about the end result and don’t care about the journey, they will skip it no matter what.
i agree that when you step into a 10+ key. You should know what your doing and have a good grasp of the basics : P we’re way beyond the training wheels stage at that point.
People should just invite players with experience and it is GG. It really is far enough to see someone did it on a +9 when going for a +10. We do not need bad statistics out of context for gatekeep perfectly fine players.
Okay, so how do you prevent players jumping from +2 to +10 in one go without adding numbers to them? How do you compare same rogues in you key, before inviting them without “numbers”? How do you make YOUR experience better for this key?
If there’s a better solution, than making game much easier, i would be glad to hear it.
True.
And im not asking about “out of context” statistic. I just wanna have more options to compare different players in invite list. One number is not enough at this point, cause RIO or Ilvl worth almost nothing if person cant do valuable stuff in keys.
I normally dont assume players would be able to jump that key range just nilly willy… If they did? It would be easy to spot wouldn’t it?
Not that I check every player that joins my keys. But if I had. I should be able too see it on their character profile.
Low ilvl gear? High rating… Boosted by other high level characters and rated characters.
Raider.io and such should be able to tell me.
If i spot a low ilvl player with high rating for example? Easy to see right there…
We’re not mad about being given tools to evaluate performance, we just don’t want you advertising. Really simple actually.
chat fatallity. By Ishayo
Yes, but someone can have good-geared friends to help, so it’s not ideal.
But i don’t:D Why do you think so?
Even with this addon. It wouldn’t filter those out. People can still have been boosted.
This addon doesn’t filter out boosters.
I think boosting is a theme for different topic at this point.
I think the design of the game itself creates the bottleneck. If you create an endgame all about challenge, more challenge, even more challenge! it’s not so strange people chase meta, optimisation, maximum this, most that etc. In combination with all the addons needed to create some clarity about what the heck is going on, it’s automatically a massive wall for the average player, let alone a new one.
I have no idea what the solution is. I think WoW’s challenging format is part of its identity by now, so ‘dumbing’ it down is probably not the way to go. I do think it’s making itself more and more niche as time goes by, because you will have players who quit this content, or the game entirely, and I’ve gotten the distinct impression regardless of an easier season here and a tougher one there, that in general it seems as if the difficulty is still ramping up. Maybe they should stop that 