MVP System - A good looking apple which is rotten inside 🧐

[Evispole-lightbringer]

@Mclovin-stormscale

MVPs are real people with emotions

Who burry them so deep in order to be polite to everyone they might go mad one day, surrender to forum madness, go full team nzoth and break CoC of some poster like OP

[Verdill-burning-legion (Verdill)]

@Blinkrush-magtheridon

Daestra implied that I use mental health as a joke so I’m asking where is that joke since I didn’t make any jokes. I know for a fact that Daestra love to take what I say out of contents to make false accusations so maybe you shouldn’t follow his/her steps which btw are against forum CoC.

Doesn’t matter if it’s joke or not. Throwing insults like that is on the same level as calling everyone clown all the time, naming everything you don’t like “garbage” or calling your teammates “apes”.

[Aptuz-zenedar (Aptuz)]

Lately I can’t stand the mvp’s. They derail every thread with gifs and pictures and make fun of everything, if anything they are annoying af. They should be helpful but instead they act as if they always needed to be heard and post over and over when there really is no need.

[Landrien-turalyon]

@Blinkrush-magtheridon

When they engage in a discussion they will first look like the first group but as they start losing the argument they do everything to not concede in a discussion even to the point of making delusional statements about them being always right and that you can’t make them stop doing what they are doing.
To “win” the argument they will do pretty much everything starting from avoiding the point and making fallacious arguments and ending on lies and false accusations of harassment while pretending to be a victim.
They also like to manipulate the discussion (sometimes using their friends) to make someone look bad so they can abuse the report system and make someone banned on the forum.

I don’t agree on the whole mental problem thing, but this looks familiar to me.

[Blinkrush-magtheridon (Blinkrush)]

@Nefaryas-aerie-peak

You say this whilst accusing Ussrainblood of alt posting? Hmm ok then.

It actually wasn’t aimed at Ussrainblood but since it was written under my response to his/her post you assumed that I’m accusing him/her. Well, I’m not.

@Nefaryas-aerie-peak

You seem to be having difficulty in distinguishing between people having not witnessed such behaviour from MVPs and them calling you a liar though, thats also not so good.

Is this opinion based on your incorrect assumption that I accuse Ussrainblood of alt posting? it kinds sounds like it is.

@Nefaryas-aerie-peak

I think people saw you attacking MVPs mental health and flagged you for it.

Except its one thing to think that something is happening and something else if it’s really happening. Moderator already decided that I’m not breaking CoC and invalidated the reports and yet people keep coming and making claims that I’m attacking someone when I’m not. People these days tend to exaggerate and play the victim card because it’s easier to “win” this way.

For example, yesterday one guy kept responding to my posts and arguing with me while completely missing the point, trolling with silly jokes as a response to my argument or changing the subject just to avoid admitting that he has nothing substantial to say in the discussion. I pointed out that he’s just spamming and trolling and that he doesn’t bring anything constructive to the discussion and he immediately accused me of targeting him, harassment, and threatened me with report.
He was the one who came to me to talk and yet in his opinion I was the one who target and harass him

What is happening on this forum is sometimes just pure madness and absurdity.

@Nefaryas-aerie-peak

You don’t have to agree and you can carry on believing you are being targetted

Well, I already had before people alt posting in my thread (they not only got caught doing it but also admitted to who they are) just to derail it because they were hell-bent on proving that I’m this bad person who does all the bad things they think I do. I’ve also had people come to my thread and straight-up insult me simply because they didn’t agree with me.

@Nefaryas-aerie-peak

but maybe choose better words in future

Just because someone doesn’t like how I said something it doesn’t mean I did something wrong.

@Verdill-burning-legion

Doesn’t matter if it’s joke or not.

Yes, it does. Context is everything and there is a massive difference between saying something as a joke and saying something to simply describe someone or something.
Dastra accused me of using mental health to make jokes and I didn’t do any jokes about someone else mental health.

@Verdill-burning-legion

Throwing insults like that is on the same level as calling everyone clown all the time, naming everything you don’t like “garbage” or calling your teammates “apes”.

Except those weren’t insults and the moderator already made the decision that I didn’t break CoC so stop exaggerating and taking my words out of the contents to accuse me of something which I didn’t do.

@Aptuz-zenedar

Lately I can’t stand the mvp’s. They derail every thread with gifs and pictures and make fun of everything, if anything they are annoying af.

Yep, I’ve seen this happen way too many times. Sometimes even when MVP didn’t start offtopic in given thread they still choose to join the destruction and behave like trolls.

[Nefaryas-aerie-peak (Nefaryas)]

@Blinkrush-magtheridon

It actually wasn’t aimed at Ussrainblood but since it was written under my response to his/her post you assumed that I’m accusing him/her. Well, I’m not.

Ok

@Blinkrush-magtheridon

Is this opinion based on your incorrect assumption that I accuse Ussrainblood of alt posting? it kinds sounds like it is.

No it is based on what I’ve observed you saying in this thread.

@Blinkrush-magtheridon

Except its one thing to think that something is happening and something else if it’s really happening. Moderator already decided that I’m not breaking CoC and invalidated the reports and yet people keep coming and making claims that I’m attacking someone when I’m not. People these days tend to exaggerate and play the victim card because it’s easier to “win” this way.

Funny that you only partially quote me here…

The simple point was that people came in and read you thread and believed you crossed a line, enough people thought that to (5 or more) to hide your post. The moderators actions beyond that are not really the issue it the fact you seem to think you are being targetted when you in actual fact you chose to use words that bothered enough people (5 or more) to flag you amd hide the post.

You are accusing people of alt posting then getting defensive about false accusations against you when actually no one made a false accusation they just thought what you said was inappropriate and needed moderator attention.

Also quite ironic you talk about some guy yesterday wilfully missing the point…

However, I get an inkling where this is going so unless you can show where the MVP acted inappropriately I’m gonna walk away now.

Have fun with your next overly defensive reply.

[Emje-draenor]

@Blinkrush-magtheridon

Most often it works like that but like I said if ALL the reports are being reviewed by a moderator then why people who got reported more than once for obscene toxicity and bad behavior were never punished.
There are 2 logical conclusions:

1. MVPs get special treatment due to their forum status.
2. Not all reports are reviewed by mods and part of the system is automated so depending on the user account, the number and type of report system may never do anything about a specific account.

I really don’t know the specifics of how a flagged post is moderated, just information I have seen from other posts which made me believe that if a post receives a number of flags (not sure of specific number) then it is automatically hidden, the Moderators will then review said post. If only 1 person flags, I don’t know if the same review is carried out, maybe it is but not as quickly, I really can’t say for sure.

Do MVP’s get special treatment due to their forum status? Again I don’t know for certain, maybe they get a verbal slap on the wrist rather than a silence or ban, we can speculate on this forever, but nobody other than the Mods and MVP’s will know for sure What I will say though is if MVP’s were continuously showing such bad behaviour, would there not be numerous posts about this? You have to remember that most posters, you and me included, would soon be ‘ready to battle’ if this was the case. I can only say again I haven’t seen this. Have I seen posts from an MVP I dislike or disagree with, of course I have, but were they toxic or inflammatory, sorry I have to be honest and say I haven’t seen that.

@Blinkrush-magtheridon

For example, soon as I made this thread it was reported multiple times for -allegedly - breaking the CoC rules and was automatically hidden. A 1-2 hours later I got a message that the moderator has removed all the reports because - obviously - I wasn’t breaking CoC.
So right here we have proof that a) part of the moderation system is automated and b) moderators take actions but at some higher degree of a problem.

I did see that your opening post was hidden and I am glad it was reviewed and the Moderator did removed the reports. It is a pet hate of mine on the forums when people flag posts because they don’t like the content of the post, rather than if it broke any rules. But if we look at this and think of how the Moderator acted, then they didn’t show bias for MVP’s, your opening post was restored.

@Blinkrush-magtheridon

My conclusion (somewhat educated but still more on the side of hypothesis) is that the reported MVP wasn’t punished because my single report at a given time wasn’t enough to trigger the system to push the problem to the actual moderator.

I can’t say for certain, as I said earlier I am not sure what happens if a post receives a single flag, I would hope that they look at all flagged posts to be consistent and fair.

@Blinkrush-magtheridon

On another hand, it’s also possible that the moderator saw the report and since it was about MVP they got a free pass or something like that.
It wouldn’t be the first forum that gives special treatment to users with special status.

You are right it isn’t the first time we have seen special treatment to users with special status, we have seen that with TL3 allocation. Do MVP’s get special treatment? I really don’t know for sure, maybe they don’t face a silence or ban like the rest of us, but even so I don’t think the Moderators could justify letting any regular forum users ignore the CoC whether that is a regular poster or an MVP.

@Blinkrush-magtheridon

Forum Code of Conduct specifies what you can’t do and the person I reported was breaking some rules from sections “Harassing or Defamatory” and almost all from “Spamming or Trolling”.
There was everything from making false accusations and abusing the report system to your typical offtopic trolling to derail the thread and even straight-up insults.

In my previous post I did go on to say that is why we need rules and guidance so that we all follow the same codes. If you believe that you saw posts that break these rules then you have every right to flag them, I would never argue this fact.

@Blinkrush-magtheridon

If someone is breaking more than one rule at once from CoC and he didn’t get obvious punishment like at least 7 days ban on the forum then the system is broken regardless of what anyone says.

I can think of several posts where the rules were broken, we can check the codes where it might say something like ‘be given a temporary ban depending on severity’. All this tells us that someone may be silenced for a few hours, the severity is not determined by us this is again down to the Moderator.

@Blinkrush-magtheridon

That’s the thing, they aren’t happening regularly and because they aren’t getting exposed they can keep up pretending to be good and useful while under this mask is hiding attention-seeking toxic person.

And here would be the problem, you say you have seen such posts, I personally haven’t seen them, so as you say it isn’t a regular occurence or more people would be aware of it and as I said earlier, if such things were happening regularly then I think the forums would be on fire

@Blinkrush-magtheridon

Obviously from now on, I’m going to make reports with proper evidence so they get what they deserve and I’m also not going to ignore all the toxic trolls who think they can spam and derail threads simply because think that in their opinion thread shoudln’t exist or other nonsense like that.

I never think that somebody else shouldn’t have an opinion, but I do say that not everybody has to agree with that opinion. Whether I agree with you or any other poster agrees with you is irrelevant, you should be able to voice your opinion as long as you follow the CoC, the same as everybody else.

[Landrien-turalyon]

I’ve had only one negative encounter with an MVP, and it involved a friend coming to defend it.

I did behaved badly on that encounter, but i recognized that and apologized for it in the end because i don’t want to treat others in a way i don’t want to be treated, but its unfortunate i can’t say the same about the MVP and her friend, the latter who called me arrogant. Even though i wasn’t behaving much nicely, i haven’t done any direct insult on the situation to receive one, also, i found the specific insult of “arrogant” to be ironic on the situation, because i would consider that the MVP saying it would never stoop to my level and had friends to have real discussions with rather than me to be more fitting of an arrogant attitude.

I recognize that my attitude wasn’t the nicest, and that might’ve triggered that sort of response to me, but I’ve made apologies, but they weren’t returned, not even acknowledged, i didn’t even got a nod saying i shouldn’t be worried and there was no problem.

[Daestra-turalyon]

@Nefaryas-aerie-peak

Also quite ironic you talk about some guy yesterday wilfully missing the point…

I find it cute that the CoC is mentioned so much yet broken so often by same person .
Examples listed below.

1)Bringing other threads into this thread .
Which falls under " Cross Linking Threads"

2)Mentioning and targeting and naming posters time and time again falls under harrasment .
I have been mentioned a few times by name in this thread which falls under

“Harassment takes many forms, and is not necessarily limited to the type of language used, but the intent. Repeatedly targeting a specific player with harassment can lead to more severe action. The idea behind this is to prevent any one player from consistently being uncomfortable in the forums”

Accusing a person of alt posting which comes under flame baiting and trolling .
Ofc he will not name the MvP because it has not happened none of the MvPs are toxic or trolls the person just didnt like there views and is now upset .Discussing about bans and silences falls under

Discussing Disciplinary Actions… Creating posts or threads to discuss disciplinary actions taken against a character or account on the forums.

All the info is here .

Forum Code of Conduct

I believe anyone saying people having mental issues without being a specialist in that field should not use that view in any context it is in very poor taste and i am shocked that a mod allowed it to stay in the post , mods which are slated by the poster as biased in one breath yet praised in the next all very confusing.

Accusing people of using victim card when claiming to be a victim of a nasty MvP and blizzard mods not working right and having favourites is very slanderous imho .

Blizzard finish there CoC by saying this

The bottom line is that we want Battle.net to be a fun and safe environment for all players. While playing on Battle.net and posting on its forums, you will encounter thousands of other players who share different experiences and come from vastly different backgrounds. While certain language and images may not be offensive to you, consider the fact that that same language and images may have a completely different effect on someone else. We’ve done everything we can to make this a great environment – now it’s up to you!

Well in my view after having my name used repeatedly in this thread i do not feel very safe or having any fun at all .

This bit sticks out the most to me

While certain language and images may not be offensive to you, consider the fact that that same language and images may have a completely different effect on someone else.

I find the use of “mental health” very uncomfortable a term which should not be used lightly.

This comment is very wrong especially the end part …

3.People who can be described as a toxic cesspool filled with red flags and obvious indications of mental problems..

[Laffey-kirin-tor]

I can’t remember any MVPs except Puny for the english forums. It shows how much I care about green text.
And I never saw anything negative emanate from her posts. Even in heated exchanges.

Still an interesting thread to read though ~

[Ananda-kul-tiras (Ananda)]

To be honest, I haven’t seen toxic MVPs. There have been in the past, long ago, but not recently. There aren’t that many of us left nowadays.

I think the main problem is that the General forum has people coming to it with many different ideas of what it should be. I think the original idea was for people to post ideas/problems/frustration/happiness about things ingame that didn’t belong in the class/realm/CS/tech or any of the other specific forums.

However, people have got to know each other here from posting on stuff and so a few fun threads have been posted as well. In the CS forum, we used to have a lounge where the blues, greens, visitors and anyone who wanted to could post and it worked brilliantly. However, as greens disappeared and we stopped having the same couple of blues attached to the forum to encourage OT posting just in that thread, it died.

Basically, people can’t be serious all the time. The raid groups organised from here have been a great initiative too (one day I’ll get over this stupid anxiety and give it a go). Chatting threads are, I feel, ok to make the forum a nice place to be so long as they don’t take over the original purpose of the forum and don’t derail the more serious threads.

However, before people quote it everywhere, this isn’t any sort of official policy … it’s just a thought of how things could maybe work.

Signed
The MVP who isn’t Puny

[Garaidh-magtheridon]

@Aptuz-zenedar

Lately I can’t stand the mvp’s. They derail every thread with gifs and pictures and make fun of everything, if anything they are annoying af. They should be helpful but instead they act as if they always needed to be heard and post over and over when there really is no need.

This summarises exactly how I see MVPs. They’re just there making posts for the sake of getting “likes”. Yeah, humour is a good thing when the forums are so inflammatory but I just don’t see the point in this pedestal status.

[Emje-draenor]

@Garaidh-magtheridon

This summarises exactly how I see MVPs. They’re just there making posts for the sake of getting “likes”. Yeah, humour is a good thing when the forums are so inflammatory but I just don’t see the point in this pedestal status.

I can see people farming ‘likes’ if they are chasing TL3 status, beyond that what is it worth? If you want to post something I think most people do this to have their opinion heard, rather than to receive a like. I can’t speak for others, only myself, but when I post I don’t think oh will people like this, I tend to reread it and think would anybody be able to flag this

I don’t see a ‘pedestal status’ but maybe that is just different views. I see an MVP as a poster the same as everybody else, sometimes I like a post from a green, other times not. I do realise that they have their own views and that sometimes such views will be at odds with my views, to me that is just having a different opinion, which we are all allowed to do. I would have no hesitation about flagging a green post if I thought they were inflammatory or rude, so yeah I guess I see them the same as I see other posters, the only difference for me is the text colour of course and the fact they seem to have a wealth of information/sources that they can quickly access and post links to assist people.

[Trelw-alleria (Trelw)]

@Blinkrush-magtheridon

So far I’ve seen 3 types of MVPs:

1. Very pleasant and polite people which will not only help but also make logical and rational arguments. When they are proven to be incorrect they will admit it and keep having a polite conversation with you.
   Most importantly they are very self-aware and very level-headed.
2. People who are MVP’s simply because they grind “being helpful”.
   In general, they are more helpful than problematic and they usually know when to quit to not cause a toxic argument but sometimes they do cause problems.
3. People who can be described as a toxic cesspool filled with red flags and obvious indications of mental problems.
   When they engage in a discussion they will first look like the first group but as they start losing the argument they do everything to not concede in a discussion even to the point of making delusional statements about them being always right and that you can’t make them stop doing what they are doing.
   To “win” the argument they will do pretty much everything starting from avoiding the point and making fallacious arguments and ending on lies and false accusations of harassment while pretending to be a victim.
   They also like to manipulate the discussion (sometimes using their friends) to make someone look bad so they can abuse the report system and make someone banned on the forum.

While the MVP system does reward helpful people it’s also a breeding ground for attention-seeking toxic people and seems like there is ZERO moderation on this forum to remove those MVPs.

@Blinkrush: Punyelf already provided you with the tools necessary for the times you think there is a need to include Blizzard staff responsible for MVPs specifically.

I have to add that I do not recognize patterns two or three in any of the extremely few MVPs still remaining. Technically speaking, I think only Shammoz, Punyelf and Ananda remain active of the English team on the English general forum. I post more here as my English is significantly better than my German. I believe Cerka has requested to step out of the program as I have seen a few posts with “Ex-Grün” in the signature used.

Shammoz may have more up to date info as I do not really directly interact with any of my fellow greens. Overall speaking, MVPs are rarely forced out (I am actually only vaguely aware of ONE such case over the past over 12 years) and most just step out of the program (or are “retired”, if they remain without subscription and contact for an extended period). In certain ways, we are encouraged / required to adhere to higher standards than the other posters and unless things have changed on the Blizzard side, we are actually more heavily moderated than regular posters in such rare cases the moderation team feels such action is required.

As for farming likes… Not likely… I think my own like count relies heavily on just two people, one of whom is Punyelf and another is a forum veteran, who has been extremely helpful over many years despite not being green.

On a final note for this post, a thank you for Emje for several excellent neutral posts. salutes

[Emje-draenor]

Aww what a nice thing to say, thank you so much

[Trelw-alleria (Trelw)]

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Additional note: As you can see the stats are fairly balanced for the period this newer forum format has existed. If anything, I should hand out a likes a bit more often myself… embarrassed