Is the new set bonus any good in PvE for FW playstyle? In PvP is trash, does almost nothing, and it’s a bit said because that would be 4th season in a row where monk does not use set bonus at all in arena…
And it also makes me curious, because patch notes clearly show that Blizzard wants to promote FW playstyle more, and then they go for some mana regen and stronger hots…? I never even get close to half mana on my monk. But if that’s helpful in PvE, I guess it makes sense.
Bonus:
(2) Set Bonus: Renewing Mists has a chance to grant Soulfang Infusion, granting 5% of your maximum Mana over 6 seconds.
(4) Set Bonus: Drinking a Tea or gaining Soulfang Infusion increases the healing of your Vivify and Renewing Mists by 40% for 6 seconds.
More mana is always good since it’s the only thing that caps our healing throughput. This will effectively increase the number of vivifys we can use during a raidboss (for M+ I don’t think it’s relevant).
The 4p basically means that if you were just macroing thunder focus tea with another spell, you’ll need an additional keybind now to fully utilize it.
The more I look at this the dumber it seems. If soulfang infusion procs too often, the 4p bonus becomes overpowered but if it procs too little then the mana regen becomes worthless…
Haven’t seen numbers but I’m guessing they’ll normalize it for 1 proc per minute, then later reduce it to 40s when people complain that it’s useless.
2 piece is kind of an insult for M+ but could be nice for raids.
4 piece will mostly depend on how big the “chance to proc” is. If it’s 1 ppm with 4-5 ReMs ticking then it’s not very exciting, but if it pops often then it becomes interesting.
We can drink TFT every 30 seconds, so we essentially have at least 20% uptime on a 40% buff - but we can line it up with burst damage and hopefully get 1x ReM and 3x Vivify out in that 6 seconds. I do hope the buff only kicks in when we activate an ability after TFT though (as with Secret Infusion), or we can drink the tea mid-cast of Vivify, otherwise we will have to be lightning fast on the buttons to max out our casting window of opportunity.
My biggest gripe is that while the 4 set probably falls into the “not bad” range, we can take something like the evokers’ 2-set which is a 15 and 40% buff to their two big party heals. It’s not cursed with a chance to proc, and they’ll have one of those spells available every 10-15 seconds on average. It’s just good dependable group healing on a spec that already has great dependable group healing. It will take them from strong to stronger.
So with that comparison, I’m not a fan of MW’s bonuses at all. If they must have mana refund/reduction in the 2 set, just bake it in a solid N% reduction to our casting cost to everything, or make tiger palm/SooM restore mana on use. For the 4 set, I’d rather we got a longer window, only after drinking a tea, without the proc. We are healers, we need reliable, deterministic outcomes.
I would if I could! But I don’t think devs read EU forums
At least they are turning our RNG down a bit in 10.1 with the redesigned AT going to “up to 5 injured players, equally split” so that it doesn’t all get dumped into the tank at 90% while the mage dies. And the new Sheilun’s talent for 5 targets. Both make for much more reliable outcomes, and help shore up our general weakness of rotational party healing.
I’m actually very pleased with the general development of MW over the course of DF. It did launch rather rough, we saw so many buffs over the first 2 months that it was clearly not properly tested, and that slow start hurt us badly in terms of community perception. It will take a while to dig us out of that trench, and I’m rather hoping we come out with strong hps+dps next season to start clawing back some popularity.
However, MW today is in a better state than MW of DF launch, and probably in a better state than I’ve seen it… ever. It feels better in M+ than it has for the last 4 years, and although I’m struggling with the raiding gameplay, other people can punch big numbers. I can’t really say the spec underperforms, I just think it’s gotten harder to make it perform and I’ve failed to adapt to its new gameplay.
On the whole, everything is moving in the right direction. I hope that 10.1 will really make the spec shine again, and I hope that the tier bonuses get some sort of review to steer them to the more deterministic approach that our other talents are being adjusted towards. The most RNG I want in my healer is crits
In raid, i think it depends of the group, the damage, the other healers, and how many healers… When we are enough, it feels like chi ji is almost useless. It takes time to be efficient, and other healers already have healed the other players. Revival is good, it’s instant. With some boss, MW is really efficient (council because of the 4 boss + faeline, or some bosses with constant damage). I think it’s harder with important and short damage, when other healers can be efficient in both. SOme players can punch big numbers, but the class is not easy to play for random players. I’m a casual player, i only play in HM raids, eventually the first bosses in mythic, and only keys below M+20, and the class is hard to play for players like me. I play MW since the beta of MOP, i know the class, i’m used to it and its gameplay, but it feels harder for me to play since DF. It was easier in SL, and easier in BFA. And with the 10.0.7 and the 10.1 patch, i think it will not be easier (vivify’s aoe nerf, and we will have to dps harder to heal, and the 2P and 4P bonus…). I understand the class is good for really good players and good teams, but in PUGS… i’m sorry but it’s not fun like it was before.
PS : the class is ok and fun until +15. Between +15 and +20, i think it’s easier for casual players like me to play another healer. I don’t know about >+20, i don’t play them XD
I’ve played MW since 8.1, so about 4 years. Before DF, I was decent in raids and mediocre in M+. After DF I am quite good in M+ and bad in raids, to the point of resigning from my guild’s mythic team.
MW can perform, but I am a little salty that the mechanics have been changed to be heavily reliant on looking into the future. I need an eye on my timer bars because it is several GCDs to prep Chi Ji to his fullest. And this is just not something I used to have to do, and I agree it makes the spec less approachable than other healers.
The evidence is that a good mistweaver is a great healer; but my suspicion is that an average mistweaver is a bad healer, because the skill floor for the class has risen this expansion. You have to be really good at it to keep up with an evoker who’s just kind of pressing buttons reactively and not thinking too hard.
Can’t say I’m too hyped about the setbonus but I’m not sure what I expected.
The 2-set is a mana battery that wouldn’t be required if our mana management wasn’t so bad the second we start actively casting heals over punching mobs.
The 4-set is a % healing increase to Vivify that is meant to help with the lack of burst healing we provide, however the only way we can actively trigger it is by using a cooldown we generally don’t want to use for Vivify, Our mana in M+ is generally not an issue (still not comparable to Evokers and Rdruids who start the run at 50% mana and end it at 100% without drinking once) and in raid it’s going into Essence Font 99% of the time which will eat up a lot of the buff window. Seems counterintuitive.
Add the fact that other healers get massive passive steroids when most already outperform us and it just looks like we’re getting the short end of the stick again.
I think a big fault here is also fight design.
I hate Terros with a passion because burst healing is king there (at least with the strategy we run) which we do not provide. Constant movement messes with our ability to heal as well and every big circle covers our entire Faeline Stomp.
Sennarth is just made to counter us while ranged healers roll their head on the keyboard. Faeline Stomp? Screw it, boss is moving half the fight and the terrain is horrible. I didn’t even use it anymore in the tornado gauntlet. Melee? Nope you’re getting out every time he pulls your sorry behind in and Chi Torpedo / Roll glitch out every other try becoming unusable. Additionally there’s limited space and you have to spread every half a minute. Same problem in the last phase regarding the spreading.
Dathea is a nightmare and a half. Churning out heals with Chi-Ji during Cyclone pull-in is like playing 4D Chess since you have to stay close enough to kick her (and thus also keep facing her) while other healers play Checkers and just toggle autorun in the other direction and press their wide array of instant ranged abilities. Solo healing the platform was fine until the knockback which renders you completely useless for the next 10 seconds because you’re flying (can’t cast) straight into a Cyclone pull-in (can’t cast) and Chi-Ji’s already used up there.
Council and Kurog are better for us and healing adds on Diurna feels good too. Chi-Ji does really good on Kurog since it’s a mini-cleave fight with heavy sustain damage.
Sadly, right now a good MW is still not a great healer in raids. We’re the only real throughput healer - every other healer brings some kind of cooldown, and while we have Life Cocoon it’s not even remotely comparable - yet we are middle of the pack at best. I parse 95%+ as MW and the similar HPS would be a 80%ish parse as Rdruid or Evoker. And they don’t have an ability that can completely ruin their HPS for 20 seconds when mismanaged.
And partly due to the fight design, partly due to the class design, we have to play twice as well right now. This 4set is only going to make that worse. Other healers get passive increases, we get an active healing window in addition to all the other rubbish we have to keep track of.
Okay, 2pc being an instult for m+ is just plain wrong. Being free of mana concerns is GREAT. You seem to forget that we have a button that boosts our healing by 40% but it costs a lot of mana. Especially on tyrannical bosses that were always tricky to handle mana-wise will be a lot better with 2pc.
“Is going into Essence Font”
This is where you will be wrong. I’m not sure if you have even looked at PTR logs, but we might skip pressing Essence Font entirely (unless for Revival prep).
(This is assuming current tuning as of 16th april 2023. Patch has not drop, things can change)
We practically have no mana issues in M+ except during Bursting weeks. A throughput buff was required, and I don’t think the 4pc helps enough while the 2pc doesn’t contribute at all (other than triggering the 4pc at random). It’s not that it’s useless; other healers will simply still be vastly superior in M+.
I do not look at PTR logs, and these posts you’re replying to are a month old so they likely didn’t even exist yet.
I don’t know what kind of abomination build people are trying out that causes us not to use Essence Font but I can’t imagine it working out. Whether or not the 4pc uptime is high enough to make a slight increase in Renewing Mist coverage (which I expect will happen with higher haste) do out of control healing in raids I do not know though.
You have very quickly mana issues when you have to start ramping your group by using enveloping mist in preparation, because you can only heal through tyrannical boss mechanics with that 40% modifier. For sure the mana issue is not a rampant concern on all levels. It is on higher keys though.
And I’m not sure why you think a 40% boost to vivify, our main group heal outside of CDs, will not be helpful. You can easily guarantee procs by using TFT or MT.
In regards to your other answer, I played like this the first time ever since the tier set was playable.
How exactly are you trying to figure out the power level of a build without looking at logs? I dont think you’re playing around with spellpower values in a small spreadsheet, because if you did, you’d notice that it is very competitive if not just better.
Uptime on Enveloping Mist is too low to cover the entire party. You can’t prepare it on everyone - not even close. I am talking about high keys.
The 40% boost isn’t useless, it’s just not as good as what other healers - which are already stronger - get.
I figure it out the same way people always figured something out without being able to have concrete proof. By looking at the already available data and then using their imagination to predict an outcome. Foolproof? Of course not. But Essence Font has so many synergies that it’s hard to get rid of in a theoretical scenario while still imagining us healing for enough.
You can cover all 5 partymembers with Envm for about 10 seconds when you have Life Cocoon ready, and 4 members for also 10sec when you dont. Just cast 4x envm into TFT’d RSK. I kind of doubt at this point you’re talking about high keys if you dont know that.
I dont think this is great, it takes a lot of prep and forsight to be able to do that. But that’s how it works unfortunately.
By looking at the already available data
Funny, you literally said in the post before that you didnt look at PTR logs. And if you’re unaware, EF was only almost unbeatable when you played Upwelling and it had high stacks. Both in SL and in DF you had a very well achievable number of ReMs where vivify is a better button than EF.
Duration is 7 seconds. Cast time is ~1.6 seconds (give or take, depends on gear). By the time you’ve applied the fourth one, your RSK will increase the first to 4 seconds at best, meaning it’s down to 3 when your GCD comes up. A far stretch from your 10 seconds. This may work in your low +20s and it’s still necessary in some dungeons on higher, but it’s not as strong as you think it is. We just lack anything better. Which is the whole problem.
I also said that you originally replied to a post that was a month old, before any PTR data was available, but you’re too daft to realize that. Either way, not casting Essence Font means no more double dipping on Gust of Mists (normal and Chi-Ji’s), no more Ancient Teachings and fewer Rising Mist triggers. That’s far too much to drop for a couple extra Vivifies. I don’t need logs to come to that conclusion. Nor would I trust yours - no offense.
I unfortunately cannot provide links. But maybe you find the website streamable and look for a clip that is available through “visl8a”. In any case, my exact 10sec were off. It is 9 seconds. And if you say it is impossible to utilize this, how come Disc’s PWR applies atonement for just 9 seconds as well? Do you want to argue this is also useless?
This is also what Megasett, literally rank 2 on the world wide ranking of Mistweavers in m+, is doing. Are you telling me, that she must be doing it wrong?
Correct, and it will be a very weak stat. Also, you can just play Yulon? So there’s even less benefit from EF.
So? Current tuning on PTR says, CF is stronger.
I’m sure I saw Renewing Mist here while typing. Whatever, this is a fair point. But the direct hit of Rising Mist is not the big driver.
Could you stop stating your opinion as facts? The logs dont lie, and data says you’re wrong. If you dont trust me, you can look up Sweggles logs. He had #1 logs on every single boss in 10.0. Maybe you trust him?
In any case, my exact 10sec were off. It is 9 seconds. And if you say it is impossible to utilize this, how come Disc’s PWR applies atonement for just 9 seconds as well? Do you want to argue this is also useless?