DH is bad because this is how blizzard balance their games. Havoc is bad but Veng is overall S+ 1/1. Demonology and destro are bad because Affliction is super good s+ tier. THEY decide what you are going to play if you want to be competetive. This is it. We can do crap about it.
thatâs not a thing, and from my pov vengeance can get nerfed or the rest can get buffed.
i donât know what you didnât understand from the sentence you quoted.
i donât give a sh1t about being fotm, just viable.
example, m+ team has druid tank/druid healer/mage/boomkin.
thatâs where a havoc would fit perfectly, i still get denied countless times cause havoc is as$.
i want to get invited on 14/15 (weeklies) even though iâm close to 1.4k score i still get denied. alot
blizzard has 7ucked up majorly with m+ this expansion.
not only because 3 ranges have combust, but interrupts are manageable with 1 melee or none in most dungeons. affixes are way more punishing for melee, itâs like theyâre telling us donât bother with melee which i find extremely stupid.
raidwise again ranged is king, melee slots are even more premium than before. only melee representation the raid has is on dk, discounting buff classes. and thatâs only cause amz, without it weâd have buffers and thatâs it. (iâm aware dk does high dps but who cares? ranged is less of a liability)
speaking of iâm making a dk myself for the next patch, not like weâll see decent guilds recruiting any other type of melee.
What I mean is that asking for buffs when your other spec is overperforming is not fair for other classes.
Take Warrior as example, all specs are underperforming in raids and nothing justifies bringing them to m+ because damage is average to low and has 0 utility, so only 1 spot in raids for ocasional Rallying Cry and AP buff.
I understand that everyone is selfish and youâd like to have the best specs but you should also understand that there are other priorities, Havoc AoE is good and ST is average at worst so at least you can play your class, unlike Warriors.
Judging from you raider.io and progression score you canât even know what you are talking about.
Your logic is completely wrong. What you need from tank is the ability to survive, which vengeance in dungeons does the best.
But that is not the reason why we should not have viable dps option. One of the reasons, why you see so many vengeance DHs, is the fact, that our DPS spec sucks. I was forced myself to go tanking, because I would never get accepted to high keys or be able to push them with such a low DPS output.
You canât play tank in arenas, vengeance in raid is only for the buff, would be havoc, but again, it sucks.
With claiming that if our tank spec is overperforming in one type of content, while completely not underestanding the reason for it (yeah people who timed max +9 might see it that way), and saying that we deserve to be below other classes offspecs, you just proved that you are not worth of anyoneâs attention, because your only purpose here is to troll or spread missinformation.
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Guess what, not everyone post with their main character because of people like you 
Itâs so sad tho that again the only thing people can do in this forum is attack the poster rather than the post itself.
All tanks get smacked so hard that you are forced to kite so the tank with high burst and mobility that can get aggro in 2 seconds and run away is the top tier choice right now, not because of defensive capabilities.
Unless you are on the 1% of professionals and you are playing with a highly coordinated group that stack cooldowns and do crazy pulls like in the MDI, youâll have to kite thatâs why Vengeance is so popular right now, not because Havoc sucks which by the way it doesnât.
Also I never said you deserve to be below other classes offspecs what Iâm saying is that you have a spec that is performing really well and there are other classes that are in a really bad state and donât even have a competitive spec, like Warriors, so Havoc is low priority for now.
what does one role have to do with another? i couldnât care less if vengeance oneshot everything the whole expansion or if it melted from 1 pack. itâs like saying because boomkins are good bear feral and resto druid have to be horrible. that statement is dubious at best.
regarding warrior, i agree theyâre in a bad spot but they do have pvp and lag behind havoc with 100dps on ST except on sludge where theyâre 400 or so behind.
but on cleave fight on this raid warrior has us beat , warrior on those fights are in top5 except council.
you can easily check log statistics for yourself.
i have to say warrior is way more desirable in pvp than havoc, not even in the same league.
but theyâre both in a slump. if asking for a havoc rework/buff somehow puts blizzard in a impossibility to offer the same for warriorâŚyouâre delusional or i am.
is blizzard indy company? are we paying them with thank you and good job? from what i know weâre paying a sub.
the same treatment should be given for every class that underperforms at least in PVE, the fix should come within 2 weeks or less.
i have given up this patch, havoc is clearly meant to be dead in the water. hopefully something changes next patch or iâm done.
btw if you check logs youâll see fury is above havoc now, by a small margin.
you call me selfish but you choose to ignore what iâve said about being viable. youâre either trolling or blind, either way iâm done replying.
good luck.
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Nuff said.
And in return they are absolutely destroying PvP. Havoc does nowhere well, they dont even do alright. They are straight up terrible in every Content type available. No invites in M+ because Vengeance is the wanted pick, no invites in Raids because even the 5% buff doesnt warrant getting picked over the massive damage gap, and PvP is laughable without The Hunt.
imagine having logs available and still pushing your warped reality further.
you are indeed a troll, go fk yourself dead. thanks!
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Thatâs due to the Covenant not due to the tank spec itself.
Also any DPS losing to Vengeance needs to uninstall.
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True. Even warlocks that are famous with their lack of strengths in m+ double veng. I wont even go to compare it with Huntard, Boomie, and so on.
Instead of comparing it with the 3 specs (you forgot UH DK) that are overperforming you could compare it with anything below those 3 specific ones, like Frost, Survival, BM, Elemental, Arms, Fury, and so on.
Donât worry though, I donât expect anyone on itâs own subforum to be objetive anyways. 
Other Specs doing bad doesnt mean it justifies Havoc being bad. What is this nonsense? Warriors need fixxing too, that doesnt mean that Havoc âbecause Vengeance is doing goodâ needs none.
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I already responded this once, hopefully you read it this time.
Warrior is logging above DH right now.
And I donât care that Vengeance is good, most DHs play Havoc, we only have 1 DPS spec, it should be viable, not bottom tier.
Itâs a fkn joke that Mages have 3 specs that all out DPS us.
Weâre bottom 5 worst DPS spec in a game where every other class has a spec thatâs better than ours and we have no other spec to switch to.
It is low priority in YOUR eyes. As a single DPS spec Class, it is absolutely a joke. As I said once more, Warrior is stomping hard as Arms in PvP for example at the very least.
DH shines nowhere as a DPS Class.
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Is it supposed to be otherwise? Of course itâs my opinion, I donât see the point of remarking this.
Again the selfish argument âIâm not top tier at something so buff meâ. Havoc is still pretty good in m+, if you canât get into groups because of community perception thatâs another issue.
Also, âitâs the only X spec we have so we need to be overpoweredâ is not a valid argument for balancing, Mistweaver in a terrible state right now with super high mana costs and itâs the only healer spec Monk has, Retrib is also in a bad spot outside of PvP which is something not everyone does so it has no relevance for me as a pure PvE guy. Same thing goes for Warrior.
Havoc needs buff and it needs it soon before the Spec completly dies off in all content types. Not sure what is there to argue about. Its one of the worst DPS specs in the Game currently.
Thereâs really nothing to argue.
Does Havoc need a buff? Yes.
Do other specs need more and quicker buffs? Yes.
Thus, being realistic Havoc is low priority as I said 234092834 times already.
Except its false. Havoc is the worst DPS spec in the Game currently. Logs prove that.