So what do you think? 
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Why did you include an âunderpoweredâ section if you added 0 spec to it?
Also I feel like Elemental shaman could have been closer to the âsimpleâ side, a bit higher in âoverpoweredâ - especially since it can leech off the Restoration legendary.
Mistweaver should be closer to âsimpleâ as well. Just because a class performs poorly doesnât mean itâs inherently complex.
Mistweaver no longer has Chi, no longer has stances, no longer has mana tea, no longer has any depth.
But it is weak currently due to high burst meta + having 0 good defensive cooldown.
Iâd put it in the simple + underpowered section.
I think youâre clueless. I mean, you put rdruid as the second easiest healer to play lol
The design space still exists even if it is unoccupied.
Or rather, itâs mostly to show what is balance and how far do the various specs drift from the ideal.
Currently I would assess that no specs are close to feeling underpowered. Everything feels either decent, strong, or overpowered.
Comparatively the classes can feel underpowered, but that assumes that for example Subtlety Rogue is the index you balance around. I would argue it isnât, and that Subtlety Rogue is overpowered and in fact a spec like Unholy Death Knight is much more balanced.
Underpowered is when you hit an opponent for 20 minutes, go into high dampening, and never feel like you have a chance of winning because your abilities hit like a wet noodle.
That design space exists, but currently itâs not where the class balance lies. Itâs more the opposite, that everyone hits so hard that players die in mere seconds.
Fair points. 
Iâm inclined to err toward casters and healers being more complex than melee, in general.
The fact that you have to stand still and cast something is inevitably a more complex gameplay procedure than simply hitting them in melee.
So the general design in my opinion errs toward melee being the simpler specs in general. There are exceptions of course â Stealth, movement, resources, etc. â that can increase the complexity. But melee in itself is as simple as gameplay in WoW gets.
But I might be off on those specs regardless. 
No. I havenât labeled anything as easy. I have put Restoration Druid in a position where I feel that its complexity correlates with its performance in a manner that makes for a balanced spec. It does not urgently need more buttons or stronger buttons. It is a solid, well-designed spec on its own.
But if you only look at simple versus complex, then Iâve put Holy Paladin as being simpler than Restoration Druid. 
Itâs true for most casters, but not for shamans. They have loads of instant casts, and most importantly: they have 4 schools of magic. They donât have to deal with interrupts. A shaman who doesnât know how to fake cast, unlike any other caster, can still do very well in PvP.
Even outside of arena, in 1v1 scenarios. Cast Fleshcraft, get kicked in Shadow. Use Hex freely. The enemy trinkets Hex. Lightning lasso. Stormkeeper. GG.
The Earth wall legendary ticks for 2500 healing, and can critically heal for 5000 - weâre talking about a permanent buff thatâs almost passive and triggers automatically every few seconds.
That covers DPS specs. Mistweaver is really weak right now.
I do believe it belongs in the âunderpoweredâ section, and itâs not even a matter of numbers. Itâs just a spec that has been stripped of all of its tools, and that keeps losing more every single expansion. The more you go back in time, the better it is for Mistweavers. And right nowâŚwell, it can cast Enveloping mist after a 1,5 sec GCD and see it instantly purged because they no longer have any dispel protection without a class buff and Pool of Mists.
No Nimble brew. No Dematerialize. No cocoon while stunned. 3 minutes, 15% wall. Ring of Peace nerfed. No grapple weapon.
R.I.P.
Seems reasonable. Iâll defer to your assessment. 
I would assess that no healers are underpowered per se.
I think itâs worth recognizing what you want to achieve.
Do you want to make Mistweaver Monk stronger so it can keep people alive in a meta-game with overpowered Subtlety Rogues and Marksmanship Hunters?
Or do you want to leave Mistweaver Monk as it is, and then nerf those damage-dealers, thus indirectly buffing Mistweaver Monk?
I would argue that the latter is the ideal approach (hence why the carrot is placed where it is). And the reason is that healing spells on their own feel good right now. They heal for an appropriate amount, thereâs good correlation between HoTs and direct heals, and slow and fast heals.
That design feels good. It is excellent in PvE. In PvP you just have a general damage output that is way too high, so healers struggle to keep up. But that doesnât mean healers are too weak. Itâs the damage-dealers that are too powerful.
And itâs probably true that Mistweaver Monk is worse off than the other healers. Thatâs just not really manifesting right now, because the weaknesses donât get extrapolated very much when everyone dies so quickly and easily â regardless of who the healer is.
So maybe with the exception of Restoration Shaman, then all healers feel about the same â they are struggling to keep up with the damage.
In my opinion of course.
I would very much not like for Mistweaver to stay as it is. As I said, with this spec, itâs not a matter of number tweaking.
Itâs an issue with a spec that has lost so many tools, it became a one-trick pony, a very dull, clunky healer with very little depth.
Mistweaver needs to be reverted to a Chi-based gameplay, to regain their Stances, and to get some ways to deal with stuns back.
The GCD on Soothing Mist also needs to go.
I am inclined to say that both Mistweaver and Windwalker Monk err toward more complexity than otherwise, because they have a lot of movement and positioning in their toolkit. And that stuff is a huge delta between a bad player and a good player.
For example, then Roll has more depth than Charge, because you can literally Roll anywhere, whereas you can only Charge your target.
So abilities that donât follow the tab-target design of WoW are just more complex than those that do. And Monks have quite a few abilities that donât adhere to tab-targeting. That adds complexity, regardless of how stripped down the class/spec may otherwise be.
But again, thatâs also just my opinion. I can see why you think otherwise though.
Ret below Warrior, Boomy on the wrong side and also way underestimated. Shadow is also a lot stronger. Feral is more complex and also stronger, Affli isnât as complex, Elemental totally underestimated and so on.
This board has a lot of mistakes and you would know that, if you would actually play arena from time to time.
You would argue that Retribution Paladin is significantly stronger than Arms Warrior? I think Iâve placed them close enough to each other that any difference is marginal. If (assuming my model) both were nerfed by an equal amount, they could both be balanced yet on slightly different performance and complexity. And I see that as fine.
How much? Iâve placed it pretty darn high. You could argue higher and I wouldnât really be opposed to that. But unless itâs significantly higher I donât see much wrong there. Itâs nitpicking.
Thatâs possible. I donât see too many of them around, in-game or streams. Most people seem to play Balance. So it may just be perception.
I would argue that Affliction is one of the most complex specs in the game for PvP, if not the most.
Letâs put it this way: The difference between the best and the worst Affliction Warlock is currently far greater than the difference between the best and the worst of any other spec. In my opinion.
I think Iâve deferred that already, but noted.
Rubbish. Itâs opinion. Thereâs a ton of threads on this forum where people go back and forth on desired nerfs and buffs and what they agree and disagree with each other on. No one has the de-facto truth on this matter, because there is none.
Whatâs missing in the community discussion is a cohesive comparison of the specs relative to each other, so you can actually get a glimpse at the general picture.
Itâs all subjective what you think good balance constitutes and everyone can argue their own desired balance and the merit of it. All thatâs interesting in that regard is to learn what that desired balance is, and how far away you are from it. The carrot is a representation of my desired balance, which is a correlation between gameplay and performance. You donât have to go along with that premise, but I note that you do.
Right now I would say that Ret is on the same level. A well played Warrior is also more complex, as their utility requires some awareness and decisions.
Let us shorten that.
OP tier: Sub rogue
S tier: Arms, WW, Ele, Boomy, Shadow, Feral, Ret, MM, Mages, DKs
A tier but only close behind: the rest
About complexity it would take too long to rate every single one, but you have a lot of mistakes there.
To be honest, the whole graphic does not match at all the real state of the classes. You placed Elemental Shaman for example 2 tiers under Enhancer, while Ele is actually stronger than Enhancer.
It is also weird to put the healer into the graphic, as they canât be judged with the standard of other roles, means dps. Based on that graphic all you need to do is to bring sub+mm+ww which should beat Holy Pala + Prot + Ret. But every arena player would know, that the tripple pala would easily win that fight on similar skill levels. That mean classes / specs canât only be judged by itself, you need to take their combos into consideration too, as much as other factors.
Itâs your opinion, but lacks knowledge and does not reflect the real state or the current statistic in any regard.
I mean, based on what experience (what class did you play, in what enviroment did you got that opinion, how rated/experienced was the other guy you took for your spec rating, etc.) have you done the graphic? Or is it just your feeling based on nothing than your stomach?
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I donât find Death Knights to be too powerful. To me thatâs not a class thatâs out of whack. For the most part I would actually say that Death Knights are a good index to balance around.
But your general take seems similar to mine. You place everything high, with some higher than others. My illustration is the same.
You donât have a point of balance though. You define everything in categories, but you donât have a direction. Is S, A, or B tier the balance ideal to strive toward?
I deferred to that. I place them as I have seen them. I donât have omniscience.
And itâs also weird that I put Jaina and a picture of DOTA2 into it. Donât take it overly serious. Thereâs a carrot in it for crying out loud!! 
Rather than making a post saying nerf x, y, z, I simply made something a bit more visually presentable and hopefully also entertaining to read/see.
But I have placed healers in there becauseâŚwhy not? Itâs a quick and easy way to say that I find healers to be pretty fine overall with some small differences between them. Donât read too much more into it than that. Itâs not a PhD thesis, itâs paint illustration made whilst waiting for my lasagna to finish. 
I mean, so far as I can see, then 68 people have clicked the image. Thatâs way more bang for the buck than if I had written a giant wall of text or something like that.
Presentation matters.
Thatâs kind of something Iâm missing when I read a lot of balance threads. The context and definition of balance.
My illustration defines balance as a space (the carrot) that is a correlation between gameplay and performance. And that it errs toward slight overpoweredness (A+B tier?). And that itâs really arbitrary and doesnât look at 3v3 or 2v2 or any comps but just the specs on their own (viability?).
There are definitely other ways to define balance and determine what changes ought to be made. But then people should put their definitions forth when they say x, y, z should be changed.
But good observation!
Oh itâs entirely gut feeling. Nothing else. Purely my experience with Shadowlands so far â what Iâve played, seen, and read I suppose. Mix it all up and you getâŚthat.
Iâm not really trying to assert superiority here, sorry if it comes off that way.
I did a similar one back in BfA (https://imgur.com/a/bWFgAml) and thought it was fun to see how my impression held up against the changes Blizzard went on to make. So Iâve made this one to basically put my own thoughts on paper, so I can refer to them as Blizzard starts making changes. Itâs always fun to see how your own perception of the game measures up to Blizzardâs.
But I appreciate getting otherâs input and how their opinions and experiences differ from mine.
But Iâm no authority on balance. I usually refrain from commenting on it, this being the sole exception. There are plenty of experts on the matter, and Iâm not one of them. But I do like to share my opinion and impression once in a blue moon, however marginal it may be. 
(holy crap, wall of text, sorry)
Wait, since when are affliction warlocks and assassination rogues difficult to play? 
A bit unsure about you having put WW and shadowpriest as far up on the complexity as you did, too.
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wtf is this lmao
Thatâs not what it says! 
If I wanted to rate specs in terms of easy and difficult to play, then I would have written easy and difficult! I wrote simple and complex, because itâsâŚdifferent.
Itâs mostly as it relates to design. Stealth as a mechanic is not difficult to press and move around with. But itâs complex because the utilization of the mechanic is vast. You can do a lot with it if you know how to. That doesnât necessarily make it difficult. It just means thereâs a layer of depth to the gameplay.
Iâm biased toward one. The other? General mix of ability design and resource system. Upon reflection itâs probably some of the other specs that are perhaps too far to the left, not WW thatâs too far to the right. What it basically says is that WW is pretty well-designed, the numbers are just out of whack.
I mean, my general impression as far as simplicity and complexity is concerned, is that Blizzard are pretty much spot-on. Thereâs a nice variety of different designs, but none that are too simplistic or too complex for WoWâs gameplay. A few seem close to being too simplistic, but overall the spec design seems good to me. Itâs mostly the numbers that are out of whack.
Then you probably really underestimated the fire mage complexity! That spec has quite a bit going for it, in contrary to what some of the people on the forums would tell you. Honestly, alter time and ring of frost alone probably put all the mage specs above, say, assassination rogue in the complexity chartâŚ
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Probably. My Mage is Arcane, so againâŚbiased.
It is called My Arbitrary PvP Balance Overview. Not sure if thereâs a de facto way of evaluating the complexity of Ring of Frost versus Stealth versus no healing contra healing. Itâs arbitrary, but you probably have a personal feeling for it. And likewise for me, uninformed as it may be. I place 'em as I see them.
But duly noted! 
Then my tier above is correct. As Unholy has one of the most damage ingame with high sustained and very good burst if he combines everything correctly. Even though it has counterplay potential, if you are able to kite away.
But here comes warrior in with his Kyrian covenant, which allows the dk to get maximum out of his burst.
If you would have seen battlegrounds and arena from inside, you would actually know that and it also shows why a plain watch onto the specs/classes alone is not a valid way to rate them.
S tier obviously. Every class should feel very strong and should have the potential to kill anything but also the potential to survive if cooldowns are used correctly. Because then the skill decides. And even when meta combos will always exist, the more every class have, the more meta combos will exists, as you can replace anything with anything, theoretically.
No! You listed some specs as very complex while they are easy and vice versa. You also listed wrong as Enhancer would be two tiers above Elemental for example and that is just wrong, itâs the other way around. You also listed some specs above other even when they are pretty even.
And that is why it lacks on knowledge. I donât want to attack you or something, but how could restaurant critic judge a dish that he never tried? You could argue that he has all the different tastes stored in his mind and judges based on that, but in WoW, tastes change with every expansion and balance patch!
And some flavors seem repulsive, while in some dishes they contribute to the perfect harmony. Take vinegar and mustard in salad, for example.
Then we finally found the reason why the balance was so bad in BfA! Let us hope they donât take your graphic as an objective and experienced impression on the balance state, as it is completely wrong!
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