My Experience playing M+

2 out of these named Mechanics are rather obvious even for a unexperienced Person and these 2 Mechanics are Underhanded Track-tics and Footbomb, both of these Mechanics have clear indicators what’s gonna happen if you just leave them be.

I mean seeing a Minecart stacked with Dynamite and a cast bar and Bombs with a Timer above them are a very clear indicator of “Hey, ignore this and you gonna blow up”

And neither would people learn anything if they just lost 90% HP, what are you supposed to learn from that? “Hmm something hit and almost killed me, i wonder what that was, ohh well”

Getting boodied on the other hand will lead to “Wait, i or we messed up something important” and that is where the Adventure guide comes into play, open it, click on Dungeons, look for your dungeon, select said boss and check his abilities.

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My friend. Death in this game is not permanent for a reason. Its not “lore”. Its not because “we are special” in any way or form.

Its because the way to lean in a game is by trial and error. So try again, pay attention to what is killing you, find ways not to die, and then find ways to succeed and optimize. Its literally where all the fun is. Its literally where all the fun in ANY game is.

Welcome to WOW. You did not learn the lesson in 2004. So you have to learn it now in 2025. You are 20 years late.

This is the last response I’m giving because this is a pointless back and forth, with a lot of repeated, parroted replies that don’t offer anything new or different to the discussion.

Every player in WoW has different experience levels. For some players who are new, they don’t have the experience to know to refer to dungeon journals, they might need longer to experience and learn the content compared to other people. Your argument is that mythic zero dungeons shouldn’t be made easier because the dungeon journal exists is a weak and nullified argument, given every person responds differently in learning. Some are kinesthetic learners, some learn best by reading, and so on. The level of experience, the amount of gear you have in the group, and also whether you are in a pre-made with friends, or someone who knows what to do, all affects you success on whether you need to look up dungeon strategies or not. In a PuG, all of these elements are unpredictable, and not reliable, especially with newer, inexperienced players. Therefore, your argument has no merit.

Again, what is obvious to one person varies, and is entirely subjective. You cannot say to someone that it is obvious. I have done these dungeons many times in higher level keystones now, and I see VERY often, that when the cart spawns far away from the boss, people VERY OFTEN forget about the cart, unless the tank brings the boss to the cart to nuke down the cart. If that doesn’t happen, I have seen experienced players forget about the cart. If experienced players are forgetting about it, then it is certainly not obvious, and I vehemently disagree with your logic here at the strongest level.

Fundamentally, this is a game about learning. Mythic zeros are the only dungeons that players are introduced to mythics. Unquestionably, undoubtedly, mythic zero dungeons should be much easier than they are now, to make inexperienced players more forgivable.

The purpose of mythic zeros is specifically to help new players learn the mechanics and tactics. If that is the main goal of those dungeons, then yes, the dungeon should be made significantly easier. Otherwise, players will avoid mythic plus content entirely without learning it because they get one shot. Let me tell you something: I was extremely close to quitting the game. If it wasn’t for the fact, that I knew exactly where to go for guides, and had a full, comprehensive, in-depth written guide that I could follow and teach every detail of every boss - I would not be playing WoW at all.

Mythics is the only enjoyment I get. If I hadn’t looked up a guide after wiping, I would never have continued playing. But that’s the problem - the vast majority of new players would have the exact same experience as I did, but not have any guide, or any information to access. Therefore, if I was extremely close to quitting, then others in the same situation as I was, would have similar mentality. The mythic dungeons was extremely unfun and challenging, and had I not known where to look for a written guide to help clear this dungeon, I would not continue playing the game. I would not be on these forums right now. The fact my experience was that bad as an inexperienced and new player to the game, is evidence that the system must change. The fact I was so close to quitting because the experience was so punishing and unfun is testament to the difficulty of the dungeon. Therefore, mythic zero dungeons should be made easier to accommodate inexperienced players.

There is no argument, or discussion to be made: mythic zero dungeons should be catered for newer and inexperienced players to help learn them the dungeon. Period. That should be the main goal, and regardless of what anyone else says: I will stand by that conclusion.

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Mythic 0 is the place to learn. There is no timer so you can wipe and analyze and go again. I understand that the mechanics arent always intuitive, but if it doesnt kill you then some people will not learn. Until they come to a higher lever where it will kill you.

Just say up front you are new and learning. There are also communities out there you can join for more relaxed learning runs. Mechanics are becoming more and more complex for each expansion it feels, so i understand it can be overwhelming for someone who returns. They also did a key level squish at end of dragonflight where they basically upped the difficulty of m0.

Good luck to you and dont give up. Dust yourself off and go again if you die.

What new players? People are responding to YOU. And YOUR experience after coming back and playing TWW dungeons.

But you said this in your original post:

So YOU are not a new player. And if after “playing this form of content for years” you STILL need to have blizzards hand telling you “fire burns” then dunno… L2P is the answer to that! Dont over think it.

Putting “new players” in the bag to justify your arguments is lame. Especially because new player experience in wow is horrible to say the least. So if anything has to change for them is EVERYTHING between level 1 and level 80. Even before they step foot on an end-game dungeon. Never mind M0.

In conclusion:

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Zellieth, I somewhat understand where you are coming from. However, ultimatively, I do not think that easing the difficulty is the way to go.

The thing is, wwhen you can survive stuff almost all bad players will expect healers to heal through it. It will even work on lower keys and then you hit the point where it doesn’t work anymore, and people start yelling at the bad heal, not realizing its just them being bad. One-shot mechanics actually tell you that you effed up majorly and give you an opportunity to learn.

However, when it comes to competivive, and especially timed content, that cannot be the teaching content anymore in any way. As soon as its timed, you are wasting everyone time when you do not know what to do.

Do we need a better on-ramp for M+? Maybe. But also maybe not.

Ultimatively, WoW is an MMO where you play together with other people. These other people usually have goals for themselves, and these goals usually involve winning or getting rewards. Now, you can co-operate and make surre on your end that this common goal is reached. Which means researching beforehand how to overcome a challenge. There are great guides out there that are only 10-15 minutes per dungeon and are completely enough to clear it even up to 12.

But the moment you refuse to do the research, you put four other people in a bad spot. They suddenly need to over-perform to facilitate your learning, or they no longer reach their goal. How is that fair? Why is putting the onus on other people to carry you while you learn fair?

In a game that revolves around doing stuff with 5 ppl, it is imho the honourable thing to prepare oneself with every ressource available before taking up other peoples time. But thats just me. So I read guides, and thats absolutely fine with me. And for people who do not want that, there is always the option to find a guild/community that does specialize in teaching new players. These exist as well.