Psychology denies the concept of an orc being a Warlock… I simply can not accept it. According to my opinion Warlock or Mage this classes represent intellectuality, high education like high degree science knowledge or something like that…HOw can an Orc be that educated or INtellectual?? its simply against logic Orcs are barbaric nomadic society they can be warriors but not science people
And Blizzard gave best racials to orcs… If you play pvp you must be orc
I cant stand the look of my orc warlock… 
help me to like orc warlocks!
Simple. Magic isn’t science.
3 Likes
While sufficiently advanced science is indistinguishable from magic, magic is still not science.
So UFOs are advanced science or magical aircraft? 
1 Like
I’ll let you know the moment I’ve had a chance to look at one.
1 Like
Well, Gul’dan is a prime example what is an orc warlock with worth mentioning that not every warlock is meant to be evil incarnate. Most people look at orcs wrong way. Their immediate reference is “peon” while it’s more than that.
In matter of fact, I could argue that there were orc warlocks before there were undead warlocks. It’s more about knowledge than intellect. It’s same with shamans. They get invested into research of doing something and they become that. Not every orc is a peon and not every orc is a warrior. I strongly suggest to read about Orc lore.
Usually for me, first thoughts of orcs are orc shaman, orc warrior, orc warlock and even death knights but rest, not so much. While for undeads, I always think “What they were before they died?”.
Thing is, if you already thinking that “orcs are best for pvp” you are already set with mind set of maximizing and optimizing performance, so if I was you, I would roll orc warlock because I care about competing, rating and performing the best I can. If I was not, I wouldn’t care if it’s undead or orc.
I am currently rolling undead because I can relate more to it.
5 Likes
Kinda the same point Jankobahn made, but I look at Orc warlocks in the same way as Shamans. Just replace the elements with fel and there you go, you got yourself an Orc warlock. (If I’m not mistaken that’s the way it literally went for Gul’Dan.) So you do not need intellect or an A+ education, just an affinity for demons (as shamans need an affinity for the elements–if that makes sense).
Also, Trolls have the best racials for PvE.
3 Likes
The most powerful and smartest Warlock to ever live was Ner’zhul; a Shaman and an Orc. See also the most powerful Necromancer, also the Shaman Ner’zhul.
On Draenor, at least before the ret-conning, there wasn’t much distinction between a Shaman and a Warlock, it’s just a Shaman keeps their oaths and a Warlock doesn’t, so the denizens of other planes decide there is a distinction. Elementals don’t want to deal with oath-breakers, but demons are fine with relationships that have no mutual trust; they reckon they can always out-wit the mortal.
They get their powers from those relationships, so good ones have high intelligence in regards to understanding how others think, particularly minds that are alien to them.
Remember that Orc society used to be clan-based and I mean actual clans with their own chiefdoms who decide their own affairs, not simply a duplicate Alliance basically serving a single government. The position of Warchief did not exist until the Shadow Council invented it so they could control all the clans beneath one leader. They were more independently-minded before that, so having to deal with each other and their conflicting values meant having leaders or advisors knowing of how different minds think.
4 Likes
These aren’t Tolkien orcs…
1 Like
Who even then were industrious, cunning, multi-lingual, capable of complex social structures and could be taught crafts including magic. They were after all once Elves.
Really, Orcs are simply the most under-rated fictional people ever. Tolkien used ‘Orc-like’ as a criticism of modern progress that failed to preserve anything precious or beautiful, but sought to replace or ‘improve’ it. That is something that can be applied to endless adaptations and misuse of his own work.
The idea of the Orc itself though has ironically been improved by it’s own adaptations across fictional settings; each new interpretation being somehow true to the Tolkien original and revealing something what was always there.
For me, Orcs are a close-second favourite behind the Mogwai-Gremlins.
Shaman yes, Warlock no. The most powerful warlock is Gul Dan.
1 Like
Most powerful warlock is Kil’jaeden
Legion doesn’t count owing to dumb-writing that should never be considered canon along with a time-line twist that brings him from the past into the present, then Kil’Jadaeden talks him through how to steal power from the Tomb of Sargeras(previously looted by Illidan, so some bull was written about the place itself having some of Sarg’s power).
Also doesn’t count: Gul’Dan’s skull from when he bailed on the Horde then got himself killed by the demons guarding the tomb. It was then used as a substitute Helm of Domination by Tichondrius to control the Scourge. The power from that comes from Ner’zhul’s tuition of Gul’Dan.
Ner’zhul: Greatest Shaman, greatest Necromancer and greatest Warlock. The smartest mortal, who managed to negotiate powers from the Nether, the Elements and the Shadowlands all simultaneously, was an Orc. Shame he’s been treated badly by Blizz since TFT.
2 Likes
I cannot agree. Legion was great expansion and really great story telling. It was the perfect ending of world of warcraft. Cannot agree for Gul’Dan as well. There was mentioned that he is the most powerful and prominent warlock of all time in several books even in one of the encyclopedia of blizzard. Volume 2 I think.
1 Like
I get what you mean OP. Visually they don’t look right at all.
Go by what is shown, not told. Blizzard already had hit-and-miss writing before WoW, but it started getting worse the moment Chris Metzen had his forgetful moment about the origins of the Burning Legion in order for the Draenai-Eredar to exist. Ner’zhul is almost completely not-present in all the bad writing for Warcraft lore, yet is a key character in all the best(Edit: save for the miserable end in the atrocious Warlords of Draenor).
If this is really just about opinions though, then Ner’zhul also invented the hearthstone*, you’re welcome.
*This factoid may be fan-fic
Edit: Further to this, the bad-writing further excluded Ner’zhul by ret-conning Gul’Dan as having got his powers in a vague ritual when the spirits at the Throne of Elements refused him, rather than his long apprenticeship with the polymath Ner’zhul.
Man we can discuss it until tomorrow but Gul’Dan brought the burning legion second time. He killed Varian, almost brought Sergeras. He destroyed Grommash and his citadel. Meanwhile, Nerzhul failed with kara and Velen somehow cleansing the Naru overpowered him.
Guldan beat and killed Tyrion, overpowered Kathgar. It is the most prominent warlock. Even when you play warlock we have hand of Gul’Dan, not Hand of Nerzhul.
1 Like
I do not regard WoW from WoTLK onwards as canon and Ner’zhul was horribly written for the dreadful Warlords of Draenor. Blizz is promoting terrible characters, including those who were once good but now aren’t(Sylvanas) by ret-conning, which neccesitates ruining established favourites. See also; recent Star Wars, Terminator, Predator and Alien films.
Well, for GulDan I cannot agree. But even then it is even battle. Gul Dan brought orcs, did some extraordinary things. nerzhul is the litch king. But in general, Gul Dan received more value and despite the fact that I also dislike the recent BFA story telling (actually there is not story) I cannot deny it.